Featured Glass Q: Does American Brillant include Canada?

I just IDed another piece from of my father's cut glass collection as Canadian 1917.

So here is a Q: Obviously, all countries in North and South America are American. But people too often use "America" to refer only to the USA. (We need another adjective. "USian" sounds very odd. "New Worlders" might be pejorative.) So when glass collectors refer to "American Brillant" is that just U.S.A. or does it include Canada, etc.?

Anyway, here is the celery dish (pattern: Clematis) from Roden Brothers, Toronto, on page 26 of their 1917 catalogue:

 

ABP definitely includes Canada. I have a Roden Bros. signed pitcher with matching tumblers. Roden Bros was very famous and I think I read somewhere that they were known for that flower cutting shown on your tray. ABP is one category of glass that I was never able to master, at least to be reasonably knowledgeable. I couldn't afford the reference books, LOL, and my library didn't have any. But the glass sure is on the sensational side of pretty!

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116856527125?

$5.42 (or best offer)

 

When I was looking to buy them, they cost on average about $50. This one is a bargain.

 

While 1917 was the end of the American Brillant period, right before WWI, you could actually say it was made during ABP but I don't believe it is considered ABP glass.
Yes, that was a time when USA was the leaders in cut class. Lead by the highest quality glass cutters and designers, many recruited from around the world. Corning New York was referred to as "The Crystal City". Oh, to have lived there during that time!
The glass would take countless hours to cut, was very expensive to produce, and sold mainly in jewelry stores, and very high-end stores.

 

When helping a friend of my mother's (years ago) sell a punch set (Alhambra pattern IIRC) I discovered that the same pattern produced in Canada would have a different name than the American one.

 

It is so beautiful but (sadly) pieces are unappreciated and are priced at next to nothing here. Ironically, I sold a Viking mushroom in high $300s, but few people want cut glass (except for very rich collectors of very rare AB.) Of course, after I research it, I am reluctant to part with it. Research first, decide later. Definitely keeping favorites.

I just found the same dish (except theirs with chips) on eBay for $8. They did not know Roden Bros-said USA unbranded.

 

Because it was the cheapest (although not that cheap--a new Amazon pb) this was what I bought. Helpful with terms to call pieces (jugs not pitchers, nappies & bob bons, not candy dishes), but author assumed the reader knew the names of the different design cuts.

I would really like to find a source that lists the different cuts/patterns with clear line drawings. Maybe it is in one of those pricey books (if I knew which) & I could ILL (although might be a reference book that cannot be loaned).

 

https://cutglass.org/BrilliantGlassEduc/A Guide to ABCG - Jim Havens/Part 1 Havens/motifs.htm

 

https://www.ndga.net/rainbow/1981/81rrg12b.php

 

There are thousands of cut-glass patterns. This is a huge category to master. I'm only a few years into cut glass myself so I'm no expert and it is hard! I have only three books on the subject so far and have barely scratched the surface.
I did look up your pattern "Clematis" and found nada in the books I have. Interesting to know that US would have a different name for the pattern as KW said.
Nice piece there. I'd never give it away for $8.00! Let them have mushrooms!

 

That leads to another Q: How to find glass signatures? Google Lens found a matching dish whose info said "signed Roden Bros" but did not illustrate the signature. So I started looking on mine. I did not see it but felt a tiny "scratch" that may be the logo--but I cannot make it out. Or maybe just a scratch,

Thank you! I see one of my Qs is right there: Different types of diamonds. It looks quite complicated, but I will keep working at it. With more information comes more security that I can offer accurate descriptions.

(I noticed Google AI is very bad at motifs. Then I realized it was copying words from descriptions of other items of similar shape, not "looking at" the object I put in google lens. But I have found no way to turn off AI.)

 

Now I am wondering if I am in error on my ID. My dish is 10 3/4 inches, but the catalog says 11 1/4 inches. Maybe Roden Bros. had different sizes? I thought it was Clematis pattern because the catalogue picture shows striations cut into the Clematis petals. But when I counted petals, the flowers on my dish has eight petals & the catalogue picture has ten petals. The Daisy pattern has eight petals, but the picture shows no striations.

Am I totally wrong? Is this the catalogue picture just not detailed enough to show the lines in Daisy?

I even thought I might have found a signature on the bottom--but when I blew it up, it seems to be a scratch/abrasion that looks like it starts with an "L." Surely this is NOT a signature. (Although I do Know people who signs their names illegibly.) Experiment, fail, learn.

 

That does not look like a random abrasion to me. I can't read it - first bit looks like a cursive G to me - but the marks look deliberate. The same issue comes up on cameos.

 

Or maybe D?

 

I am mystified. With the naked eye & with magnifying glasses it just looks like the tiniest scratch or abrasion. Are signatures on glass ever that small? What would be the purpose if no one could see them? Is this just the human tendency to find order in random experience--like seeing objects or figures in clouds? Chasing a chimera?

 

How tiny is tiny? Are there any other such scratches on the bottom? This isn't just scuffing. If you first found it by touch then it is more like gouging, or engraving. I know about seeing faces in knot holes & letters in stray marks, but this still looks purposeful to me, except now I see a possibility of Lea(v?)___.

 

It is 3/16 inch long (under 1/4 inch). I do trust your eyes better than mine. (I was always very nearsighted & could see detail by raising a page or object close to my eyes. But after cataract surgery with variable lenses, I have improved middle distance but lost my ability to see close detail. Like living in a Impressionist painting without brushstrokes when I want Early Netherlandish, Eyckian precision.)

So who is "Lea(v)..." A cutter at Roden? (How can someone cut letters that tiny!?) Why do I not find a Roden mark (rampant lions flanking an R)? It is a puzzlement!

 

Than you very much. I needed that.

 

I made a closer view of the catalog page with Daisy & Clematis patterns.