Please Help w/Coat of Arms Crest.

The closest I've come to making the ID is that of: 'NICOLL'.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/v...lesex-churches-middlesex-heraldry-society/131



But the three martlets are on the outside of the collar and not inside as seen on my piece. Can you all help?



Thank you!

 

Crests, as part of the superstructure of coats of arms (the crest is the bit on top) can be a bit generic, it takes the emblazonment (the design on the shield) to pin one down.

A family with many branches could have a dozen different branches through marriage to other armigerous families, halved, quartered, and so on, and still keep the same generic crest
Is the crest all you have? It looks like something you'd see on a bookplate.

 

Thanks, AF!

"Is the crest all you have? It looks like something you'd see on a bookplate".

From my research so far, the above is correct. I've only found books/bookplates with crest of a collared lion's head erased, but nothing so far on porcelain in which this crest is decorated on (Chamberlain's Worcester plate, early-19th C.).

The other thing is, I can't seem to find many examples of this scalloped plate either. There's one in the BM's collection with a similar description, circa 1810 - 1845, but the inscribed motto is different. Unfortunately, they don't show an image, only the description: http://www.britishmuseum.org/resear...&partId=1&searchText=chamberlain+plate&page=1

The other two I found, circa 1830 are in the V&M's collection, no crest or motto. 3rd row, far left: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/search...rch=&materialsearch=&mnsearch=&locationsearch=

It appears 'Tricia Nixon' (President Richard Nixon's eldest daughter) wanted or got 12 of these Chamberlain's Worcester plates for a wedding gift back in 1971 according to this 1971 newspaper article's quote. The quote is the only reference I found so far that describes these plates almost to a tee: "Tricia also suggested (in case nobody gets her the silver, crystal or china) she would like Royal Worcester ovenware with strawberries, and a set of 12 antique Royal Worcester service plates valued at $250. The 160-year-old plates are white with gold scalloped edges and, at the top, a blue Medieval crest — Universa Benevolentia (benevolent universe)".

These are the ones I have...

 

Did you query the Worcester museum? Just a long shot thought.

 

Are you trying to establish if these were Ms Nixon's plates, plates from the same service (an armorial service buyer would have ordered far more than a dozen), or just similar Worcester plates

 

Checked the WM, but nothing, thank you.

I was hoping to ID the crest in order to possibly establish former ownership. The crest and motto doesn't seem common, nor does this scalloped style plate by Chamberlain which appears elusive.

 

We never throw anything away in Britain, so we still have the College of Arms in London, who still oversee matters of heraldry and no doubt have archives going back to the middle ages. Have you looked to see if they have any form of online reference?

Since electricity is a bit new-fangled, you may have to send a letter to Norroy and Ulster King of Arms or Rouge Dragon Pursuivant of Arms in Ordinary, or other other grandly named functionary. Which would be a bit of fun in itself. They may be shocked to find out the Colonies now regard themselves as a Nation, but of course a nation without REAL heraldry.

 

LOL, Afantiques.

Yessireebobtail, we have little pomp, lots of circumstance(s), and no real affinity for "long-horn" trumpeteers (unless they hail from Texas). No doubt our being such a small country, geographically speaking, has held us back.

 

Thanks, AF.

I searched their site but found nothing that matched.

Searching the V&A's site again I did make another discovery http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O437104/plate-unknown/ and recognized the arms instantly as one being on an 18th C. Chinese plate we have here in inventory.



Unfortunately, the museum doesn't have an ID so I guess we'll both be writing the arms college a letter requesting info.

 

I remember a discussion back on the OTHER board when some English folk got a bit perturbed that Americans use family crests indiscriminately - after all, it's only certain branches of certain families who are allowed to use heraldry. Over here, you're likely to find a family crest hanging in the powder room! We're so irreverent.

 

Hi Bev,
My BIL is so wanting to be a royal. He was at Ellis Island and they have a company there that will give you any crest you want for all over the world. They could not find his surname and told him it was a made up name.
The best was his father always claimed he was French Canadian because that is where his grandparents came from. Found out his grandparents sailed from Scotland to Canada and moved to NJ.
greg

 

And then there's our Conrad Black who so wanted to be an English peer that he gave up his Canadian citizenship, bought some sort of peerage, and then got into trouble and was incarcerated in the US and wanted his Canadian citizenship back so he could come "home." I kid you not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Black

 

Nuff, a few years ago, I had a piece that I couldn't identify. I contacted the Institute of Heraldic and Genealogical Studies at http://www.ihgs.ac.uk/

I had to pay $35 pounds for the ID but it was worth it. It tripled the value of my piece which I sold through Christie's.

 

Thanks, MCT, for the linked info. Much appreciated.

"It tripled the value of my piece"

Nice! That's one of the reasons why I like to try and have these crest/arms ID'ed. Knowing who or what family these items were made/ordered for does help add a bit of extra value to an already decent piece.

Thanks again!

 

My pleasure, it isn't often that I can help anyone. They were able to trace the origin of the crest back to 1352 and gave me a history of the family and their movements right up until I put in my request. I actually emailed the descendants and let them know the piece was up for auction so they could see it. (and hopefully bid)

 

Very cool!

Thanks again for the linked info, MCT.

Regards

 

The Library of Congress' "Local History and Geneaology" branch in DC has helped me immensely over the years, including ID-ing the COA of a famous Austrian knight that was cast onto a medieval firearm that's in the big auction. You can email them a request and if you are lucky one of the "old timers" will take a peek and crack the code.

 

Thanks for the info, Spring. Much appreciated.

Good to see you're still around.

 

I just bought a ceramic plate at the salvation army with these arms on it. In fact, i came upon this thread by doing a reverse image search. I have a thing for ceramics, and this one is my new favorite. It's different than anything else in my China cabinet. What is the symbolism behind it?

 

Letitia, if the discussion in this thread didn't answer your question, I think you would do better to start a new discussion about your plate. This thread you were replying to is quite old.