Help ID: French oval platter, crowned N with S and 54, iron-red

Hi all — hoping for help with a platter that's been in my family for years.

61.5 x 27 cm oval. Translucent hard-paste, good ring. Entire underside is unglazed biscuit, only the rim is glazed.

Iron-red stamp on the biscuit: closed crown over N, small S to the left, 54 to the right. Incised above it: "D - 47 - 9". No second mark anywhere.

Decoration is gilding only on white — ivy-leaf and interlace border, central lozenge medallion. Gilding is raised and the leaf veins look tooled.

The stamp is faded and scratches run across it rather than over fresh ink, so it seems to have aged with the piece.

Condition: one 2 cm chip with loss at the rim, general gilt wear, no cracks.

Is this a Sevres 1854 mark, or a Paris/Limoges factory using an imperial-style mark? Does the absence of a second mark rule out Sevres, or could the unglazed underside explain it? Any thoughts on the incised marks?

Thanks.

 

if you can post in the English language , you cal write your name in English as well.

or , should we just refer to you as Al ?

 

@komokwa ,
The account name is in Arabic, and it gose like "AL-baraa Moayed", make it as new name in your dictionary, THANK me later, BRO.
I'm in Egypt and that's my first language. I'm a mechatronics engineering student on a GERMAN-system programme and I study in English, so the English is mine — I used AI to help tidy up and organise the post, but the platter is mine, the photos are mine, and the observations are my own.

Happy to take any additional photos you need.

 

Hello AL-baraa Moayed - I'm not sure that I can provide any additional information beyond what you have already discovered. But, in my opinion, this platter does not have the quality I would expect from a genuine Sevres piece. The decoration is not expensive or intricate enough to my eye for the period that the mark would appear to indicate. And you are correct that the lack of a second Sevres mark on your platter is problematic.

 

Welcome, AL-baraa! You're in good company here.
That's a lovely platter, elegant!

 

So, welcome to Antiquers! I took the liberty of snagging your photos as I thought I recognized the mark. It is Sevres and is a very nice mid-19thc piece. Now the information below is from Google's AI, so it should be verified with other sources, but it does fit with what I recall of the mark. Sevres is a bit of a mine-field because it is one of the most faked porcelain marks.

From Google's AI:
Based on the image provided, this is an authentic Imperial Sèvres factory mark from the Second French Empire, representing a piece that was fully decorated and completed in the year 1854.
Here is the precise breakdown of the details shown on your porcelain:
The Red Printed Mark

• Crowned "N": This is the official imperial monogram for Emperor Napoleon III, who ruled France from 1852 to 1870.
• "S" and "54": This indicates the piece was gilded or decorated at the Sèvres Factory in 1854. During this era, red overglaze stamps were applied specifically to designate decoration or gilding completion.

The Incised Mark (S - 47)

• The lightly scratched or incised mark directly above the red stamp reads S-47.
• In Sèvres production, this represents the manufacture date of the raw porcelain blank (the "whiteware").
• It means the physical body of the piece was cast and fired in 1847 (during the late reign of King Louis-Philippe I). It sat in the factory's inventory for seven years before being selected, painted, stamped with Napoleon III's mark, and sold in 1854.

...

This elegant, elongated vessel is an authentic Sèvres hard-paste porcelain asparagus cradle or long celery dish (plat à asperges / plat long).
The front of the piece features the "Service du Chiffre Doré de l'Empereur Napoleon III" (The Emperor Napoleon III Gold Cipher Service) pattern. This specific pattern holds significant historical value: [1]
Design & Pattern Details

• The Ivy Leaf Borders: The border decoration consists of delicate gilt ivy leaf vines punctuated by running scrolls. In French imperial symbolism, ivy represents fidelity, marital devotion, and eternal life. [1, 2]
• The Central Medallion: The center features an intricate, geometric gold cartouche mirroring the classical palmette motifs favored during the French Second Empire.

Historical Context
This specific pattern was the standard daily imperial table service used across Napoleon III’s primary royal residences, including the Tuileries Palace, the Château de Saint-Cloud, and the Château de Compiègne.
Because your piece bears an incised fabrication date of 1847 alongside a finishing decoration date of 1854, it represents a fascinating bridge in French history. The porcelain body was originally manufactured under the July Monarchy of King Louis-Philippe I. Following the 1848 revolution and the subsequent rise of the Second French Empire, the Sèvres factory repurposed these high-quality blank wares, decorating them with the updated imperial ivy motif to supply Napoleon III's expanding courts. [1]

 

This purports to be Napoleon III's Sèvres table setting. You can compare for quality.

https://www.proantic.com/en/1778379...tury-sevres-porcelain-dinner-service-for.html

Debora

 

Oh dear, oh dear. That attitude is not a good start imo. I hope it will change.

We are an international forum with English as forum language. I could have chosen a forum name in my own language, something like 'Schatteboutje' for instance, or chosen a name in one of the other languages I speak, but chose an English name (American spelling) to make it easier for other forum members.

And please feel free to add 'Schatteboutje' to your dictionary. You can thank me any time.

 

Leaving everything else aside, this looks like it has some serious age on it. The marks incised to the base appear to have been done by someone for whom this was their natural hand, & the numerals in particular look 17th, earlier 18th century.

Also, I assume there may be a difference between table service made for use in Napoleon's court & wares made for lesser individuals who wanted the same pattern. Monarchs were trend setters, after all.

 

I said Al ..... not AI ... bro..!

 

Welcome. Not sure how most of us, lacking an Arabic keyboard, would be able to tag you. Good you gave us a transliteration so we have a way to pronounce your name in our minds. Otherwise we might have to think of you as

 

@komokwa
Alright, @komokwa, my bad bro, this is a new community to me, and it seems like its small one, not the one that knows Arabic.
Yet it gose like "Baraa" not "Al" for short cut.

 

@Bronwen — thank you, your second point is the most useful thing said in this thread.

Would the same gilded pattern have been available to private customers outside the imperial household? And if so, would such a piece still carry the crowned N mark, or was that reserved for court pieces?

 

OK, Baraa , I'll try to remember that !

Yes , we are not a large site, but we try harder !!

 

Well, I thought I had added some pertinent info -- Napoleon III Sevres...

From: https://antiquesknowhow.com/sevres-porcelain-marks/
1850 – 1870 Sèvres Mark:
The first French President, Napoleon III, introduced the ‘French gilded crown’ mark in the 19th Century. This mark had a simple red-colored crown icon with an ‘N’ (for Napoleon III) & year date under it.