Brass ornament mirror

I went to the flea market today against my better judgment. Bad idea. I couldn't help but "gamble" and buy this mirror for 20$ without doing any research or realizing how big a job it would be to remove the silicone someone has used to "restore" it. The glass pieces are clumsily attached with black silicone and I don't think the black paint in the back of the mirror is original either. Or is it?
Oh, and the bottom side is missing one of those ornaments. So are two of the upper seams between glass pieces.

Now the questions:

How old?

What style?

Is it worth the effort to restore it "properly"?

 

I removed one of the brass mouldings and it's quite heavy cast brass. I thought it would be lighter.

 

I don't see the silicone but you might be able to carefully cut it down til it's thin then roll if off with your finger.

 

Am I allowed a guess here??????

It's approximately 12x12....

 

19 x 19,5 inches with the decorations

 

I would not guess it to be very old, but from the construction maybe pre-WWII. You might be able to take a mold from one of the existing edging pieces and cast replacements in solder.

 

Compared to other slightly similar ones I've seen and the construction & sheer wear and patina I have no reason to believe this would be newer than circa 1900.
If anyone would like to prove otherwise, it could be helpful.

https://www.bukowskis.com/en/auctions/589/1230-a-baroque-circa-1700-mirror

https://www.bukowskis.com/en/lots/421214-spegel-barockstil-ca-1900

https://www.bukowskis.com/en/lots/625575-spegel-barockstil-1800-tal

 

What does @verybrad think?

 

I've had it!
Every moulding is attached with a pound of silicone. Every piece of glass, stuck to the brittle wood with a lake of SILICONE.
40% of the wood structures stuck with SILICONE. Whoever did this is a MONSTER. **** YOU!!!
My hands are hurting and the next step is to smash the misplaced, misshaped and useless mirror pieces with a hammer until they're glass dust. Nothing else works. By then the wood parts will be unrecognisable and the whole mirror ruined.

 

I worked on the restauration today.

 

I think the pre-WWII estimate is about right. Maybe as early as the teens but more likely 30s. I think I would have been tempted to just remove what traces of silicone are visible on the front and call it a day. Not a good way to attach the mirrors but, as you found, hard to correct.

 

Why do you think that?

@verybrad if you'd like to take a look at these examples, you'll see similar (not the same exact) but similar mirrors all dating from 1800 to the Edwardian period:

The beginning of 1900:
https://www.bukowskis.com/en/lots/704225-spegel-barockstil-1900-talets-borjan

19th century
http://www.wellsreclamation.com/mobile/19th-century-italian-octagonal-mirror/p1722

Circa 1900
https://www.bukowskis.com/en/lots/704977-spegel-venetiansk-stil-omkring-ar-1900

Circa 1800 (similar shape)
https://www.bukowskis.com/en/lots/455067-spegel-barockstil-troligen-italien-omkring-1800

1800s-1900.
https://www.bukowskis.com/en/lots/582671-spegel-venetiansk-stil-1800-1900-tal

 

I don't think the quality of the casting and finish work on yours is up to par with that of the earlier examples. Notice the excess metal at the edges and lack of definition in some places. This is most noticeable in your 4th photo. The back of the casting is also grainy which is often an indication of later work. Victorian era castings (and earlier) tend to be quite smooth, well defined, and well finished.

 

Those small leaf-like mouldings are pressed metal, all the others cast.

I've seen plenty of circa 1900 stuff with similar things: a little excess metal somewhere in a tight corner of an ornament. While such things can indicate a later date, not everything was meticulously done even in the 19th century.

That can possibly be caused by polishing or the fact that the mould / model that they used for casting the shape was a bit worn at that point. Differences in definition can be noticeable throughout cycles of manufacture.

Often, yes but not always. It's more smooth texture-wise to me than later grainy ones.
Some of the metallic parts have those black spots that gilded brass develops over time.

Due to the lack of an example of the same exact mirror elsewhere and my own summary of the item, we'll have to agree to disagree for now. I still think the mirror is late 19th century / edwardian based on what I've perceived. The pictures are not the clearest sort so perhaps the item comes off as less "authentic" than it is. Or maybe you are right.
I may update my view later if more information about the mirror surfaces.

 

That "excess metal at the edges" is sometimes called finning. It is caused by leaking molds. On determining between period and reproduction trivets, finning is a sign of a reproduction. True antique trivets from the 1800s, very rarely have finning and if so it was removed before selling. The finish work on this mirror is not up to the standard of the 1800s. What I can see from your mirror, just about all the metal edges seem to have finning. Following is a page on judging between new and old trivets. It has a short definition of finning as well as having a pic.

Scroll a little down the page to the "Warning Signs" section. Under this section, about the 6th paragraph, finning. Also way down the page fig. 12 shows finning.
https://www.realorrepro.com/article/Trivets-New-and-Old

Have included a pic pointing out some of the finning on your mirror.

--- Susan

 

I'd call it deliciously gaudy, hang it in a guest room as is, and call it a day. Unlike breast implants, silicone goo on the mirror may be there to stay.

 

What's that? As I said there are exceptions and not everything was up to the same standard, even though many people seem to think that these days.
I was thinking the mirror was about edwardian, roughly 1900-1905.

The reproduction "warning signs" in the link you provided are specifically talking about cast iron:
"Crude, rough casting Old iron has a smooth, fine grained surface. New iron is rough textured, jagged edged."
The mirror has gilded brass or bronze details. When it comes to the finning, well, it's really not very bad and considering the kind of places it's mildly present in I've seen worse on an Edwardian piece.

If you are however convinced that it's a reproduction, finding the exact same mirror online must not be hard as there are probably loads of them around.

Thanks for your contribution.

 

The restoration project hasn't moved much at all, except today when I decided to Polish the brass hardware. I'm all for a good patina in the right place but since the brass mouldings are pretty shiny I decided a cohesive appearance would be better for the item. I also think that gilded brass is better maintained near its original condition, free of patina.

I applied some powder polish and water on the decorative hardware I moved it around gently and washed it off. After it had dried there was a thun but semi-opaque chalky layer on the surface and the patina had not gone anywhere. I decided to wash it with soap and use a brush to get the chalky substance off. Once I rinsed the soap foam off, the hardware was almost as shiny as the sun. Most of the gilding in intact, only minimal portions (the tip of the nose of the face figure) show bare brass. I assume the mirror's hardware was never really polished so the gilding never wore off.

Before and after: (not the same exact piece in both pictures but they all look like the after picture now)



What do you think? The camera flatters the before picture. It really was much more of an orange-toned dull brown.