Featured Dilemma - To Tell or Not?

This is a follow on to the discussion that got going in the thread on where to find overlooked goodies at bargain prices about when and whether to inform a seller that an item of theirs is not what they think, with possible consequences for the fair selling price and seller's good standing with eBay.

Should I alert the seller of this cameo, a professional auction outfit with a feedback score of 5,000+, that there is a strong possibility it is glass, not agate/hardstone as represented? I am not completely sure because the setting prevents seeing the line where the lavender and red layers meet, but feel they need to reassess the piece bearing in mind that it could be glass. Doubt the seller is deliberately trying to deceive. If you are not aware that sophisticated glass pieces meant to mimic hardstone, quite lovely in their own right, are out there, it is easy to be fooled. I have no interest in the piece for myself, just a personal mania for getting correct info out, as well as concern for both buyers who may be unwittingly cheated and sellers who are opening themselves up for a complaint of 'not as described'.

The cameo in question:




An example of a glass one:



The auction has a couple of days to run. Among the bidders is someone with a feedback score of 1. At present the top bid is still well below where I would value this piece in its 14K setting, even if it is glass, which may mean that others knowledgeable about cameos are passing it by, also suspecting glass. If it ends up selling for a very high price to someone who realizes with it in hand that it is not what they thought, this could end in tears. Tell? Or not?

[Addendum: Same seller has a conch shell cameo incorrectly described as angel skin coral. Similar situation: already bidders; 14K & seed pearl setting; currently well below appropriate value. Tell or...?]

On the other hand, the seller of this 14K cameo ring, a professional jeweller with a feedback number 13,000+, describes it as shell when it is actually hardstone. With a week to run, bidding has not yet reached seller's 'small reserve'. The amount of gold involved is certain to bring the final price up to a goodly amount, and most/all of the bidders probably can see perfectly well what it is and will place bids accordingly. Is there any reason to inform this seller? They are not at risk of a 'not as described' complaint unless from a really perverse buyer.



I yield the floor.

 

Message them asking to confirm that it is glass before you bid, expressing the concerns you have just mentioned. That gives them the opportunity to look into it.

 

I usually think, "Let the buyer beware," because there have to be a zillion auctions with wrong information, and you can't police the world. But if the seller is undervaluing something, I would probably let him know.

 

As I was spinning my thread, it occurred to me I could send them a message with the pic of the glass one attached & ask if they were confident theirs is stone. Gives them the opportunity to rethink it without sounding accusatory or scolding & something for comparison.

 

IMHO give YHO, if it had been bothering you.
And as you said more as a question, rather than accusatory.

 

I would ask also. Ask if they have a gem tester, there is a clear difference in the readings for glass and agate

 

I agree, ask them in a very nice way, just inquiring, etc. The way you describe them they seem to be reputable, and it could save both them and the buyer a lot of hassle.

 

I only sometimes police my highly-specialized little sliver of it. As primarily a collector/buyer, my sympathies tend to lie the other way. I have worked long & hard to acquire the knowledge I have. What obligation do I have to give it away for free to a stranger to enhance their profit, particularly when that seller touts their professional expertise & years of experience?

I have many times let non-professionals & charity operations know a cameo is better than they think in the hope it will improve their return, a pleasant thing to do.

It is no joy to me to tell a seller their item is of lesser quality than they believe, but it may spare them some grief. Professionals often don't accept my judgment, or not at first. Sometimes they do when they are relisting for the fifth time. I only do it when I can give them evidence.

It is damaging to the whole cameo market when things are passed off as what they are not. Ideally sellers & buyers would be equally knowledgeable, but... The whole long-running Finds threads is largely about how members have profited due to seller ignorance, no?

 

I wouldn't bother. They're a big auction house with thousands of successful sales. You can be confident they think they know better than you. Your info would significantly lower the value. Their buyer in unlikely to question their expertise. Why should they listen to you?

 

Your heart is in the right place....but you run the risk of ..

" Who the hell are you...the Cameo Police ? "
or....
" If you don't like it....just don't bid ! " ..
or
" It's not ours & we were just told what it was....."

Personally......bin there , done that.....& now I share my expertise with those who are asking for help.....& I try not to go looking for trouble !

 

I agree, in general. People usually don't listen anyway, even get annoyed.
But there are the other arguments as well, especially the hassle for the buyer....

 

I don't care that much if they question my judgment. I just chuckle to myself in the knowledge that curators at the Met, the V@A, & the British Museum, as well as a couple of prominent scholars in the field take seriously what I have to say. A bit back the V&A changed their description of a piece based on what I could tell them.

I feel only the need to lead the horses to water, I can't....

I definitely do this when I have something useful I can tell them.

 

If they don't listen, their loss when it goes wrong. I'd message and ask them what the stone tests as with their gem tester. (as for the ring, I'd be bidding on it if it were my size and I were after cameos...) The first one does look too much like your glass one for comfort.

 

I have no intention of bidding, so no personal stake in it, other than the damage fakes do to the value of the genuine pieces they mimic, hence the value of my own collection.

 

OK, did the deed. Is this meek & polite enough?

Are you confident the cameo is hardstone? The one in the pic attached is glass, probably French. Unfortunately the setting covers the line where the colored layers meet, so one visual clue is out of sight. You might want to use a gem tester on it, for confirmation & reassurance for others like me who see the resemblance to glass.

Lovely cameo, either way.

 

polite....but not meek enough.....

 

Yeah, I don't do meek all that well.

 

This kind of thing is "normal" in the old furniture world, even by the best auction houses. They simply don't have the time or expertise to research & evaluate every object and they plainly state this in their auction info. Besides, their main function is to find a buyer and market the stuff.

 

I don't mind when it is clear a seller is doing their best & admits they are not sure. It is when incorrect descriptions are given with an air of authority, not an iota of doubt, particularly by the big name auction houses, that I get aggravated. Their misinformation becomes 'fact' & received wisdom because it get [cat accident here] s published in their catalogues, which then become references for other 'experts'.

 

Hi,
I go through the same thing with Fiestaware. When I see people offering a light green piece as a med green at 10Xs the price. I have sent them messages so if they wonder why the piece doesn't sell or gets returned they know why. Most people thank me but some of the others. I hate to tell you what they call me.
Some times I tell them (Usually if they are a new seller). Now that there are 75 pages or more of items I do not have the time.
greg