Antique Doll,Cloth Body Screws In Hips

Antiquelover, is the one below like the ones you found?
Ceramic face not composite, but just to get an idea in which direction to look. This one is more special than yours though.

https://www.rubylane.com/item/80674...20Doll/Vintage-4-5x22-Antique-Russian-Peasant

 

Antiquelover, you could ask here if she is Russian, there is a mail address at the top of the page:

https://privatemuseums.ru/en/about/project-geography/moscow/the-museum-of-antique-russian-dolls/

Will you let us know what she says?

 

I collect fashion dolls as previously discussed and have seen some others dollies along the way. This doll is imo NOT older than the 20s ... it's likely a mask faced carnival doll from a fair, or some other cheap outlet.
It probably is also representing a country which could well be Russia but this is a cheap ish doll even when it was new.

 

I missed this in my above post but I utterly concur with you, @judy ... this is exactly what it is. I have had lots and lots like this and move them on as soon as possible but they (sorry) have virtually no value. Hopefully someone'll just fall in love with it for what it is...a cheap souvenir from a time long gone ( 20s/30s being probably the earliest as previously discussed)

 

@Any Jewelry Your opinion(s) is very much appreciated, and I never thought differently of them and I thank you again.

Your imput is very important because you are so widely respected on this Board (and elsewhere I'm certain) and even in this subject you brought out the obvious vast differences in the dolls pictured. That you did some of your own research says much about you in that you are so willing to help. You raise yourself to a higher level with every post.

No wonder you have a million likes..........you're a million dollar person.

 

Thank you Bou.............

 

@lizjewel............

My posts for pointing out the qualities of the dolls you posted was really for @antiquelover69.......I didn't want OP to come away with false hope about the worth of the doll. OP's posts have indicated that that is the case, and had to be brought out that the doll in question does not fall into a much more desired category amongst doll collectors.

@Any Jewelry & @BoudiccaJones came to the rescue. I thank you, and I hope you, @antiquelover69. can appreciate that it really is a kindness to be honest.

Your doll was loved by someone, and perhaps she is still out there. Reality is that she is not worth the love in dollars...............

 

Lovely Judy, you and your knowledge of dolls are also very much appreciated and respected.

That was my worry too. Raising hopes can lead to hopes being crushed.
I hope the Russian museum will also bring some clarity.

The main function of dolls. Many other items too, but many dolls have that life-like quality which brings them just that little bit closer to us.

 

@judy Thank you, Judy, for this summary. For the record, I never once mentioned monetary worth or collectible value of OP's doll. I did agree with you that it was not a doll that collectors particularly desire, that it definitely was of lower quality. However, the fact that it had sawdust and an older construction led me to believe that it was an earlier doll than from the 1950's, 1960's that was suggested in this thread.

Here's another thought that came to me: the head could be a modern replacement as well as the clothing. I have a personal example of this: When I was a child in the late 1940's I was given a very old doll by an old aunt of my dad's.

The head was made of thin celluloid. My little sister "borrowed" my doll without my knowledge and took it to the sandbox outside. Some boy there broke the doll's head to be mean to my sister. She came back with the broken doll, crying.

I was none too pleased although I was nearing the age when I didn't play with it much. My mother took the doll to a doll "hospital" in town where it got a new head. The new head was smaller, not as pretty as the old one, and made of a hard composite.

I never liked it thereafter but my sister did; she got it from me as a forgiveness for having caused it to be broken so all was well.

The original doll with its celluloid head dated from the 1920s or so. It had kapoque stuffing I remember, not sawdust.

My point with this reminiscence is that even a head can be a later replacement on an old doll. Not because it would add any value to it but because a distraught child liked her doll better than she would a new one. Doll "surgery" was popular in those years because toys/dolls were not as disposable then as they are now.

 

Anything could have been replaced, bits and pieces lost or added, and stitching redone.
But I think the only interest in this doll would be as a vintage folk costume doll, for which there are collectors. If a collector were to find a doll like this cheaply and know the origin, they could replace what is missing and have a nice costume doll.

Given the short sleeves in combination with a red skirt, I still think she could be from a Mediterranean country. And the gathered top of the skirt is screaming to be covered by a bodice, imo.

 

Why oh why do you think it's a replaced head? I don't understand this over egging of the cake. This has been (more than ) adequately explained already. There is utterly no reason to believe anything on this doll is other than AJ and Judy have explained.

I think some of the confusion regarding worth etc was due to apples being introduced when we were dealing with oranges. Much better quality ( ie non comparable) items were being spoken of when all it did was muddy the waters.

A lot of antique dolls of this era/quality were actually filled with excelsior and not *straw*.

*I* restore dolls myself, ( Sindy etc) so dolly surgery is not a lost art.

 

And you do a fantastic job, you really know your craft, and doll history.

I have only repaired or replaced costumes on antique and vintage folk dolls, which I used to collect. But that is how I know there are costume doll collectors who don't mind sewing replacement folk costumes.
Of course you have to know your costumes, but that is another one of my interests.

 

Thank you my lovely AJ. I DO enjoy it xx

I wish I knew a teeny fraction of what you know (about literally anything) xx

 

@lizjewel.......... Replacement parts for dolls happens all the time. Long ago, right now and will continue to be the case into the future.

My own doll was taken to the "doll hospital" for something or other.........can't remember the problem, but my mother knew I loved the doll (can't remember which doll), and sought to have her fixed.

I still have at least 3 of my original dolls, and time has changed them somewhat, but they are still in good condition.

When I see the condition of some dolls, I wonder who owned them.............why the poor condition. Worn from too much loving? Perhaps. Or, the owner passing into another phase of life and the doll is then "tossed" aside?

I guess I can owe the fact that I still have my childhood dolls to my mother. She loved dolls, and had only one in her lifetime.

She placed that one doll somewhere where her mother advised against.....near a door that opened inward......sure enough Mormor was correct.........the door hit the bisque head and broke her.

How I would've loved to have seen that doll......I wonder who made her......probably German....French would've been prohibitive in cost.

@Any Jewelry......your observation of the top of the skirt has much merit. You know a lot about the dress of many Countries.......even my little doll's hat in my Avatar............

 

I only just read your sewing replacement costumes..........you are amazing..........I have a feeling that you have more knowledge about dolls than you ever let us know.

Now the secret is out...........

Bou you are a great source. So glad you are here.

I miss @Christmas Joy and @sassafras for their knowledge.

 

Hmmmmm.......on @Christmas Joy not coming up highlighted.

 

Bodices on costume dolls were often made of black felt. That could be a sleeveless bodice with laces in the front, one with slit sleeves, or even just a very wide band like a huge belt, also laced up.

Just folk costume dolls and 'character' dolls.
But they also come in all shapes and sizes.

So do I. You're pretty much on your own now, when it comes to general history of dolls.
Did you read the update on Joy?

 

No...........I did not know of an update...................

Please tell me.

 

Inh's post, #592
https://www.antiquers.com/threads/antiquers-alert-where-the-heck-is.52505/page-30

 

Just a bit of fun, my mother with a costume doll her parents had just bought her while in Volendam, Holland, in 1939. Apologies for the poor quality, I have to scan it properly some day.