Featured Palm Reader figural, said to be Royal Vienna. Or is it?

this one came up at auction a little while ago. It has a sort of bindenshield mark. What do you think?

 

BUt now compare it to this one. Said to be Ludwigsberg from the worthpt. site. Very similar but without the cherub. funny.

 

Worthpoint is only an accumulator of listings from other sites, like Ebay. Does not collect information from vetted resources or verify in any way the information therein.

 

not sure what you're pt. is Baker.

 

.... that worthpoint is not a valid resource for identification...

 

It's a beehive mark, whether fake or real I don't know.

Here is the same figural group from an auction site in the UK. They say it has a gilt pseudo anchor mark and was made by Samson.
https://live.adampartridge.co.uk/m/...view-auctions/catalog/id/211?cat=24&view=list


I looked for a site with Samson marks, but it does not show any blue beehive marks. It does say something to the effect that many Samson marks were removed so the porcelain figurals could be passed off as originals.
https://www.theoldstuff.com/en/porcelain-marks/category/308-edme-samson-marks
This is what the gold Samson anchor mark looks like.

That's all I have so far. I think more research into blue beehive marks is in order.

 

Samson was my first thought. Something about the colors and the way the front of the dress was decorated...

 

i have several questions:

DO you think the discoloration on the bottom of the base indicates that someone tried to remove the original mark? Or is that discoloration normal?

Its interesting that the cherub is gone in the Ludwigsberg one and replaced with flowers. THe book is still there, it doesnt seem to have much significance sitting there on the floor by itself. Do you suppose the cherub broke and was replaced? or is it possible that they sold them as two separate items?

 

It's just speculation of course, but I think there were just two different models. The cherub was probably a separate piece attached at the time of manufacture. Once they ran out of cherubs they may have gone to a flower because it was slightly cheaper or they didn't want to take the time to make more cherubs. Porcelain companies were always looking for ways to save a few pennies. It looks like the cherub may have been reading from a book of life and passing the information onto the fortune teller. It's more interesting with the cherub IMHO. I don't think the flower is a replacement for a broken cherub because of the coloring on the ground where the cherub was located. That could have been added after but the shading matches.

 

Here's an example with different color and cupid differently situated (or maybe someone else's copy):


A Pinterest photo (to which I do not subscribe) and I think called only German porcelain.

 

Yes, the fortune teller isn't looking at the palm, she seems to be intently listening to whatever the cherub is whispering to her! Which makes the cherub-less group seem rather odd, with the fortune-teller leaning over and paying attention to nothing at all!

 

well the fortune teller is listening to the cherub. The girl is asking about her future in love and naturally the fortune teller is relying on Cupid to tell her. Cupid in turn is relying on a some book of fate to explain all this.

 

BUt Im not citing worthpoint to prove that Ludwigsburg made that. I am citing it to point out that there are other examples of this particular mold/model that obviously exist, and very likely are not Meissen because well, because there not claiming Meissen they're claiming Ludwigsburg.

 

MOS: who made that one you show in the pic?

 

Don't know. Found it online as a Pinterest photo.

I guess it was an Etsy item:
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/413627547010771888/

 

nice research. thanks

 

Here is where this figure started in May of 2019.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...nna-porcelain-group-figurine-143-c-5554d5bb09



It's on eBay right now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254192002304

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254192002304

And.... I did find one item listed and described as a Samson figure with a blue shield / beehive mark. If Samson ever did actually use a beehive mark it doesn't look anything like on the figural group we are trying to research and ID here.


So, just some more clues along the way.

 

thanks Laura for all that. it is all very interesting. Thanks everyone.