Featured Need help dating carved ivory casket/box

9.5 x 5.5 x 3.75

I was thinking celluloid, but this appears to be ivory with such beautiful carving. So, oh my! Can anyone help dating and giving a point of origin on this little casket?

In BAD shape, as shown:
Bands of discoloration
Horrific reglue job
One sliver detached along the front
Lock and hinges are corroded and rusted
Rust stains

But BETTER than I was thinking:
Not as discolored as I thought, those horizontal dark bands are from the natural streaks of color in the panels
Appears to be hide glue and comes off really easily - might leave some light stain, but not quite as bad a those dark corners
Great dovetailing seems to be intact
Very small edge losses, seem like they could be repaired...

What have you all used to remove rust? I read on a gun forum to use penetrating Kroil???

Opinions on quick soaks to get the glue softened. It peels and pops off pretty easily, once moistened with warm water. So you think soaking for short periods would be ok? Some reports that water is harmful, but I assume that's long exposure.

And I don't think I've ever seen those half covered hinges before - on the outside.

I'm wondering if this is old/valuable enough to invest in a professional restoration.

 

Some of the banding looks intentional, but it may just be age. Dunno. Thanks, y'alls!

 

my thread is sunsetting, so let me tag a few

@Any Jewelry
@evelyb30
@Hollyblue
@komokwa
@Bronwen
@kyratango
@i need help
@Jivvy
@Phaik Hooi
@Asian Fever

I have no idea if it's English, Chinese, Persian - so called out as best I could I know there are others, sorry if I missed you!

 

I have no idea where your beautiful box is from, but have been googling around and found this one from Worthpoint, not many photos though. Do you think yours at one time had feet? Looking at the photo of the bottom there are cut-outs on each corner.
I don't have a worth point account so I don't know what it sold for.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/excellent-c1900-indian-carved-ivory-jewelry-casket
here is another one from India, again, not many photos
https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2016/arts-of-the-islamic-world-l16223/lot.264.html

 

There is so much carving on yours it obscures the grain of the material. but have to say yes, ivory, Indian, missing feet.

Sotheby's sold this plain one for about $1,400 last year.

https://www.sothebys.com/en/auction...on-pierre-berge-pf1860/lot.253.html?locale=en

It looks like the one more like yours that cxgirl's link goes to did not sell.

 

I think that's basically correct. I have cleaned up ivory cameos with soap & water, but not prolonged soaking, as I many times have done with shell cameos. Not sure how far the rust stain can be removed. I doubt anything suitable for cleaning guns is right for ivory! Could end up spreading the stain further, if not outright damaging.

 

man , that's a lotta work..........

 

I keep thinking it's covered in paper doilies.

 

or the person who carved it...is still recovering!

 

Possibly moghul yes, I wondered if there may have been feet...

I found a few that are in the realm of "similar" Indian, moghul... Seems like same quality carving.

cxgirl's


A Mughal Carved Ivory Scribe’s Pen-box, Probably Rajasthan, Mughal India, Circa 18th Century. aljantiques.com


Sotheby's
A Mughal ivory scribe's pen-box, India, 17th/18th century
LOT SOLD. 5,000 GBP

For cleaning rust from ivory handles, but they digressed all over the place... just never heard of it. I

Ivory's pretty hard, some thought rust may not penetrate too deeply.

 

I'm thinking anything meant to dissolve rust could turn it back into a liquid that might spread even farther around. Hard doesn't mean it's not porous.

 

Kroil is just oil - I wasn't assuming it'd work

Well, it cost me a buck and gave me a lot to think about!

 

0000 steel wool wrapped around a tooth pick or bamboo skewer,possible a non food colored tooth paste also.

 

Thanks @Hollyblue

 

It is stunning, scouts, and I agree, antique Indian.
@808 raver will probably know more about the place of origin and be able to narrow down the period.

I have used Holly's toothpaste option on minor stains, and it worked.
I have also cleaned layers of non-original paint off ivory by soaking it in vegetable oil and cleaning any junk that came off away with alcohol, to be repeated over a long period. My oil of choice is rice bran oil, colourless and no smell.
I don't know if either would work with rust stains.

 

There's not much more to say, Scoutshouse has got it spot on and the box is truly fantastic, and worth (in good condition) between £1500-3000 but unfortunately yours in missing the feet/legs, still worth getting restored but you will never be able to find the right feet. If it were mine I might try and clean it up myself to save money knowing that after that it might only be worth (at auction) £400-800. Saying all of that I have a few top end boxes that are in very poor condition I still get enjoyment from them because I marvel at the workmanship.

 

Show them! Please!

Thanks, all

Anyone know which glue to use?

 

I tried to find the pictures but I've changed my hard drive from disk drive to SSD, I still have the old disk drive in the computer but it's a nightmare to find anything ATM but fortunately I remember I did do a post on the box I was thinking of...https://www.antiquers.com/threads/v...e-in-the-queens-collection.22749/#post-306070

 

I have just been taking a closer look at the carving on this and it's just fantastic, will you be restoring it or will you be leaving it? I think instead of using harsh chemicals or abrasives to get the rust off have you just tried a toothbrush and whitening toothpaste? The problem I see is if the screws are also steal instead of brass then they might have expanded in the holes making them impossible to remove or cracking the ivory. I think once all the rust and old glue has been removed and all pieces have been glued back the box will be acceptable on it's own without the carved feet, yes any purest will know they are missing and won't pay top money but it's not like the box has deep carved figures when you would expect deep carved paw feet. I think they would have just been bun feet or even just flat like the ones pictured above, I suspect from the fantastic geometric pattern with no figures this was carved in northern India, almost certainly Nagina region, I know, they are famous for carving ebony but this smacks of their work (best micro carving in the world) It was carved by a Islamic carver that's why you see no figures.

 

@kyratango ?