Featured Seeking info on Tall Windsor Style Comb Back

Aloha,

Over many years, I have been unable to convincingly date or place the origin of this chair. What I do know is it has been in the family for at least 70 years, and is untouched during that time, as far as repairs or refinishing of any kind. There is a notable repair on the left arm (as you face the chair) that predates me. I was trained from a young age (and guests were politely advised) to not "push off" from the chair with hands out on the end of the arms, for fear of re-breaking it, but it has seen light daily use for the entire time. The seat is 2 inches thick around the back side, somewhat thinner and shaped in front. The chair overall is 45 inches tall, the seat a little less than 22 inches at widest point in front, and about 16 1/2 inches from front edge to back edge of seat at widest point. The small, long spindles are not glued in, but are one continuous piece from very top rail to the seat. They are about 3/8 of an inch diameter over their longer section.

I am curious to find out what the membership has to say about it...hopefully @verybrad will have a look!

As always, Mahalo for looking and any info.

 

That's one helluva fine piece of furniture, good sir!
Thanks for the look!

 

Well that is a lovely comb and brace back Windsor chair - I wonder if it is Connecticut or New England? I love the shaped plank seat and knuckles on it! Last time I thought a chair was late 18th, turned out it was a great reproduction from early 20th. Better wait on Brad!

 

I think the two board seat precludes this from being a period example. Saw marks on seat bottom are straight and regular so would think a mid-19th century example.

 

Would you be able to highlight the joint between the two boards? I am including an image of the top of the seat so you can compare with the bottom pics. I clearly see grain going in different directions, but I do not see a clear through line, which I would think over such a known long period of time, would have become more obvious, as I have seen on other old family pieces. I'm no woodworker, but could that seat have been cut from a burl piece? With regard to your comments of "saw marks", could you also point those out? Are they hand cuts or do you believe machine made? It seems to me the scrolls on the top rail and on the ends of the arms are hand made, would you agree?

Sorry if I am being dense here, but as I originally mentioned I have had several knowledgeable folks study the chair over the past 50 years, but there has been no consensus on the when, what or why. Actually you are first to identify a two plank seat. I have no intention of selling regardless, but I am just trying to get the best info to pass along with it to my nieces.

Much mahalo for anything further you can provide!

 

I can do this but it will probably be in a couple days. I am out of town til late tomorrow.

 

I am wondering if this is what Brad is referring to?

 

What I noticed before is that the grain doesn't match up on the part below:



Maybe that is where Brad saw the joint between two planks. He is much more knowledgeable than I am, this is just what caught my eye the first time.

 

I have looked at that, and, if you look at the image in my response to Brad that shows the full bottom, it does not seem to track straight all the way across. Also, I don't see any indication on the side of the seat, either side, in that vicinity. Now, I KNOW the chair has been in my house since I was baby, as I have some old pics of me with the chair in the room, and I'm now 70. Also, there were several years that the chair, along with much of my other personal property, were in storage. Not climate controlled, and exposed to very cold midwestern winters and hot/humid summers, which adversely affects a lot of furniture and other items. Add to that, let's just say I'm overweight, but for many years, and indeed to this day, I often sit in it when putting shoes on in the morning, so it gets a workout! I would expect to see more pronounced, and quite clear, "planks" as I do on other pieces of furniture old or new.

Thanks for looking and for your input, I really do want to try to resolve this once and for all.

 

Ah, OK.

And I KNOW that 70 years doesn't take us back to the 18th century.

Now please chill, everybody is trying to help

 

I see a straight join line (just visible in between my messy black lines) all the way across on both the top and the bottom views of the seat:

 

Oh, I agree I'm not THAT old! Just saying it wasn't some repo made in the last 70 years at least...

 

I noticed those lines as well, but they do not appear to extend all the way to the edge, and actually seem to curve slightly a few inches away from the edge. If you look at the view from the top, there is another similar fine line that starts just in front of the first small spindle on the right, but it ends about 4 inches from the left side, with nothing particularly notable in that area from the bottom.

It is quite confusing...I've traced the individual visible grain lines, and they just don't line up as I (not a woodworker) would expect. That is why I thought about burlwood, which to my understanding is a point of a tree where multiple branches split from the main trunk(s). I can imagine a slice of a large, multi trunk tree grown together and with branches or large knots having very confusing grain lines as well. I've certainly seen some large, gnarly trees in my day.

I do appreciate everyone's input, I am not discounting any of it...I'm just trying to get some clarity on the rationale. Mahalo!

 

A burl (American English) or burr (British English) is a tree growth in which the grain has grown in a deformed manner. It is commonly found in the form of a rounded outgrowth on a tree trunk or branchthat is filled with small knots from dormant buds.

 

and Brad was saying he felt mid-19th so definitely not 20th C!

 

Yes, that is the same line I mentioned in my post #8, where the grain doesn't match.

Burr wood has a grain with round knots and with wavy lines:

 

OK.... People have identified the most visible glue seam in the above posts. On closer scrutiny of the enlarged photo, I believe this is a 5 board seat. I have marked with black arrows at the side the seam discussed above. I have circled the others. The one at the bottom of the photo is less clear than the others but I think it is there. At least one of these are clearly visible from the top. Glue seams should be nearly invisible from the top of a finished piece unless there is joint failure or boards shrank at differing rates over time (which can also lead to failure). They are usually pretty evident from the bottom side.

Smaller circles are spots where the grains from board to board do not match up. I could point out others but these are quite evident. This is the clearest sign of multi-board joinery. This is a practice adopted as wider lumber became more scarce in the later 19th century. A benefical bi-product of multi-board joinery is that the piece is less likely to split over time as the wood shrinks if joined properly. The practice was widely adopted.

The machined saw marks run vertically in the photo and I have marked them with orange arrows at the bottom of the seat. These regular saw marked were made by a machine operated band saw or reciprocating saw. By the 19th century, machine saws like this were the standard for processing lumber. While the circular saw was invented pretty early, It did not come in to common usage until the mid-19th century. A circular saw leaves arc marks, rather than the straight ones seen here.

The straight saw marks are what led me to place this post-1850. The 5 board seat gives me a bit of pause as I would not really expect it until a bit later. Say, 1870 or so. It is entirely possible that a sawmill could still be using a band saw this late, particularly in a more country setting. Meanwhile, the furniture maker could be using more modern techniques. Consequently, I think your chair dates to 1870 or later, but certainly 19th century.

 

Much Mahalos for your detailed response. In particular I find your comments on the saw marks as something no one has previously noted. It does make sense, and that time frame does better fit the progress of my family line across the country to the Midwestern plains where they settled in 1860.

I appreciate the time that you and others on this forum spent on this. It's just sad that today's generations place little worth on pieces from our predecessors. I only hope that my nieces will take care of them for their future generations...everything I own is a wonderful hand-me-down except for electronics, tools, and clothing! Personally, I appreciate the direct connection they give to my parents, grand-parents, and great-grandparents. Thanks again!