Featured Couple of chocolate cups Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI help please

I have tried to ID the back stamp but not had any luck, the cups seem to be of paste porcelain quality. Any help with date, maker would be much appreciated

 

This person says European - doesn't help much! https://www.ebay.com/itm/375401467760

 

Thank you for the info, I’m sure someone will know somewhere.

 

Sèvres often has these crowned initials marks, but let's wait for the 'potties'.

 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/375401467760

Is not Sevres. I think those images are transfers and not handpainted. At first I thought Japanese, but with the style of those impressed numbers, they are probably Continental. I think 20th c, and that's the end of my musings!

 

I found something interesting. The same (but of lesser quality) eBay dish with a different mark. On Spain's todocolecion.net. Not sure what that means. Seller thinks c. 1900.

https://www.todocoleccion.net/antig...tado-mano-escena-cortesana-1900-ca~x509700022

Debora

 

The image, of course is Mme. Le Brun's 1783 portrait of Marie Antoinette. With some artistic license.

Debora

 

how is this the same as the items posted by the op?

 

It's not. The first dish has the same mark as the OPs cups & saucers. The second dish is identical but has a different mark and one that's fairly recent. Makes me suspect all three pieces are from the same period.

Debora

 

You can rule out "Oscar Schlegelmilch" (Langewiesen, Thuringia).
And nobody recognized that mark used on "todocolecion.net", the bird with a fish in its claws? That's a mark used by US importer/distributor "Bawo & Dotter" ...

 

Isn't that interesting. According to the internet, they also decorated and manufactured.

Debora

 

Not really; B&D never actually owned a factory in Austria. Shown 'eagle & fish' mark was a mark derived from a registered mark of the original manufacturer which produced those goods and custom-marked them for B&D, namely the factory of Carl Knoll in Fischern. Another business supplying them was the TK Thun factory (which also custom-marked the products in such cases).

B&D - like so many others - also never had a factory or decoration studio "in Carlsbad", for pretty obvious reasons. People seem to forget that Carlsbad - as internationally renown air and water spa and in-scene Royalty hangout - never allowed any type of businesses which could have endangered the air or water quality (and firing china was a damn dirty business back then).

This is often completely ignored in US literature on the matter. Companies in question often had nothing more than shared (!) showrooms and/or sales offices there (similar to the French Limoges area, by the way). A matter of representation / marketing. Sure, there are a lot of business cards and ads around, but those are not improved by what badly informed people Google-translated or AI-raped out of them. The constant misunderstanding of the term "Niederlage" comes into mind (which once stood for branch/subsidiary, nowadays only "defeat"). Such shifts in meaning are a constant in every language - just think about the term "gay".

Anyway, enough for now