https://drive.google.com/file/d/1taVRMbRE8sEoDEdk-aUngkhWevsURjjf/view?usp=drivesdk Мені потрібна інформація про тавро на каблучці. Прошу відповіді фахівців з цієї теми
Translated from Ukrainian I need information about the brand on the ring. I would like to ask for answers from experts on this topic.
Viktoria, I get the impression the ring could date from the 1970s or later, which could be too recent for most of us on this antiques forum. Just to be sure, could you show us a photo of the entire ring please? An did you find it in Ukraine?
не думаю. Тавро знаходиться на зовнішньому обіді, що свідчить про його виробництво в Європі з кінця XIX до першої третини ХХ століття у приватній ювелірній мануфактурі. Виробник поставив свій знак H&R
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ysONfmKnkRLmdB2VYEx0Ses95_QbXa4Z/view?usp=drivesdk https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tUG4f85WYuxX8vUUc1_uQCSkGRiv6sJ2/view?usp=drivesdk https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PS3JK57GRlcko9Ul1IL-CTG4dTLruguU/view?usp=drivesdk Тавро приватної ювелірної мануфактури поставлене на зовнішній стороні обода каблучки. Це відомо про те, що каблучка виготовлена в кінці XIX на початку XX століття в одній з європейських країн, це може бути Німеччина, Австро-Угорщина. На таврі літери H&R
Translated from Ukrainian I don't think so. The stamp is on the outer rim, which indicates that it was produced in Europe from the end of the 19th to the first third of the 20th century in a private jewelry manufactory. The manufacturer put its mark H&R The mark of a private jewelry manufactory is placed on the outer side of the ring rim. This indicates that the ring was made in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in one of the European countries, it could be Germany, Austria-Hungary. The letters H&R are on the mark.
About stamping on the outside of a ring band, marks were stamped that way well into the 20th century. I even have a ring from the 1990s that is stamped on the outside. So unfortunately that is not a way to date the ring. I agree that it is likely a German ring. Probably not Austrian. The H&R mark is not in any of my sources, but maybe one of the others can find it. To me your ring looks 20th century. I will leave a more exact dating to those with a better knowledge of 20th century jewellery. They will be here later on.
Є уточнення. Там літери "H&P", і ще збоку справа вертикально ще менші літери або цифри, остання ніби як 6
Translation: "There is a clarification. There are the letters "H&P", and on the right side vertically there are even smaller letters or numbers, the last one looks like a 6"
Could what looks like a six be a 5? .835 silver fineness was used in Germany until the late 20th century, and often stamped as 835.
[ЦИТАТА="Будь-які прикраси, публікація: 12587001, учасник: 2844"]Чи може те, що виглядає як шістка, бути п'ятіркою? Срібло 835 використовувалося в Німеччині до кінця 20 століття і часто штампувалося як 835.[/QUOTE] Ви зациклилися у другій половині століття. А тим часом потрібно побачити початок ХХ століття. І не Німеччину а Великобританію. Бірмінгемська палата. Рік виготовлення каблучки. Якщо це "b" - то 1901, а якщо це "g" - то 1906. Бренд Haseler & Preece. А можливо відома мануфактура, яка працює на межі ХІХ-ХХ століть Hands & Pearce.
Translation: "You are stuck in the second half of the 20th century. In the meantime, you need to consider the first half of the 20th century. And not Germany, but Great Britain. Birmingham Chamber. Year of manufacture of the ring. If it is "b" - then 1901, and if it is "g" - then 1906. Brand Haseler & Preece. Or perhaps a famous manufactory that worked at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries Hands & Pearce." I think something was lost in translation, I am not stuck on the second half of the 20th century, I am trying to help you and have no vested interest in it being second half of the 20th century German or something else. I said "until the end of the 20th century", meaning it was mostly used before then. In fact, millessimal marking was introduced in 1888, this marking included the 835 mark. By the end of the 20th century, most German makers were changing to sterling silver, with a 925 mark. Your ring was not marked in Birmingham or anywhere else in Britain, unless it has marks you haven't shown us yet. British marks are punched on the inside of the ring and Britain uses a full set of hallmarks, so a row of marks in cartouches. Those look like this, albeit with different marks for town, fineness, year and maker, depending on the piece and origin: If your ring has a full set of marks, I would love to see a photo of the full set.
This is a list of Birmingham date letters B and b, including the Birmingham anchor and the lion passant for sterling silver: https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Dates/Birmingham/Date Letters B.html No maker's marks for obvious reasons, but note the row of marks and the shapes of the cartouches. The same for G and g, the same row of marks and cartouches around every mark: https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Dates/Birmingham/Date Letters G.html
Ви помиляєтеся хоча б тому, що ця каблучка належала моїй прабабусі, яка народилася в 1873 році і померла в 1949. Саме тому мене і цікавить дані про час її виготовлення, бо я хочу дізнатися, чи придбала її моя прабабуся, чи каблучка перейшла в її спадок ще з її батьків. Мені шкода, що Ви витратили свій час. Певно, буду шукати думки інших експертів. Дякую.
Translation: "You are mistaken, at least because this ring belonged to my great-grandmother, who was born in 1873 and died in 1949. That is why I am interested in the data on the time of its manufacture, because I want to know whether my great-grandmother purchased it or whether the ring was inherited from her parents. I am sorry that you wasted your time. I will probably look for the opinions of other experts. Thank you." First of all, you have been withholding information, which is counterproductive. We always need any information you can give. Second, an 1873 - 1949 time frame means it could well be 20th century, as I thought, so I don't see how I am mistaken. And as I said, 20th century jewellery is not my area of expertise. But if you would like to think it is 19th century British, in spite of the lack of British marks, then you are the one who is mistaken. You are free to think what you like, no problem. Good luck on finding someone who agrees with you.
