Trying to find what pieces would have been offered in a T&V pattern.

Thank you in advance! I appreciate any help you can offer!

I’m trying to find what pieces would have been offered in the pattern I have.

I inherited some Tressemanes & Vogt china in pattern TRV193 (Replacements pattern ID) and I’ve found the same pieces in other T&V patterns but haven’t had any luck in finding anything (advertisements, catalogs, etc) to tell me what was sold in my pattern.

 

It may not be possible to see any old catalogs for T&V. They are no doubt stored away in collections or museums, if there are any left.

Looking at this pattern, it appears that yours might be one of several dinnerware patterns sold at the time. Are you trying to rebuild your set or just trying to see what else is out there to add? The mark was used by T&V from 1907-1919, not a very long run time, and the mark isn't seen all that much. You might have better luck looking for retail catalogs from that time period for a store that specialized in this type of item. Brides especially needed to see catalogs, but they had actual stores then, not on line retail. I used to have one old catalog that might be good but it's on my old computer and I didn't move it over. I'll look for it tonight.

 

Try looking for a set by the same manufacturer, of the same period and with the same blanks. The pieces in the line were most probably the same.

Debora

 

Thank you! I plan on rebuilding the set but since this pattern seems to be pretty scarce, I’m going to make the pieces myself and use transfers to recreate the decoration. I would like to build a complete set of what this pattern would originally have been offered on, but unless I find some retail catalogs or sales records, it’s a shot in the dark. I have found some identical pieces in other patterns, but I have no way of knowing what should or should not have this pattern.

 

Thank you! That’s what I’ve been doing and I’ve found some identical pieces in other patterns, but I have no way of knowing what other pieces in those patterns would have been offered in my pattern. I did find three smaller versions of my octagonal platter, so I can assume that my pattern would have been offered on those smaller versions.

 

You are very talented to be able to do that. It would be nice to see how you do it and what the finished product looks like. If I could do that, I'd start a YouTube channel, lol!

I would say all of them were offered across the pattern lines. I looked up T&V in one of my reference books but it focuses mostly on the top 5 most popular dinnerware patterns along with the drop dead gorgeous pieces. A lot of T&V was sold as white ware and hand painted by decorating companies to sell. Fortunately, Haviland patterns were well cataloged by Dona Schleiger so people collecting those patterns have a chance of finding pieces. None of the other Limoges companies have been cataloged (to my knowledge), except for what Replacements has been able to do.

Much success with your project!

 

I plan on using pieces in other patterns to make molds, but the expensive part is going to be getting the transfers. I don’t have the equipment to make them and it’ll be a little trial and error getting the colors right.

From what I’ve been able to find, a New York company called Vogt & Dose was the sole distributor for T&V for the United States and Canada. Vogt & Dose was founded in 1865 and closed in 1931.

Interestingly, Vogt & Dose was founded by Charles Vogt and Fredric Dose. Charles’s brother Gustave Vogt, founded T&V with Emilien Tressemanes.

I’ve been searching for advertisements and trade documents, but most of what I’ve found is too generic with no images.

 

These are the three different style marks my pieces have. Outside these marks, there is nothing else on the back. No stamps, indents, or etchings.

 

The different backstamps may indicate that different factories produced those pieces. As an example, for the white ware, the plates may have been produced by one factory, the cups and saucers by another, and completer pieces by a third. The various pieces were then assembled by T&V into a set, decorated, and sold. This wasn't an unusual arrangement.

In your research were you able to find any retail outlets that T&V used? It might help in your quest to concentrate on the department stores, jewelry stores, etc. that sold the china to the consumer. Sometimes the ads for these companies would show the sets they had available. It's unlikely that the ads will actually say "Tressemann & Vogt" but they may use the word "Limoges" and/or you may recognize your pattern from the illustrations.

I've got to tell you it's a real long shot. The importers didn't usually carry the same patterns for very long. Dinnerware sets were almost considered disposable as handwashing dishes often resulted in broken pieces. It was assumed that once enough pieces broke the customer would purchase a new set in a different pattern. That new pattern might reflect more modern tastes in shapes and decoration. One final note on this point would be that not all sets in the same pattern necessarily have the same shape. Importers would often complete sets from whatever pieces they had available and any two sets in the same pattern may have differences in the shapes. As an example, if I was assembling ten sets but only had six teapots in one shape I might use four teapots in a different shape to complete the remaining four sets. As you can see it can get quite messy.

I would recommned acquiring a copy of the Collector's Encyclopedia of Limoges Porcelain by Mary Frank Gaston (ISBN 9-781574-321715). Copies are available on eBay for under $10. It has a very interesting section on T&V which contains useful information on the history of the company. I don't mean to discourage you but you seem to on a quest to assemble a historically accurate set. A noble goal but it's going to be difficult and may end up being a lifelong project. Best of luck!

 

Thank you!
I have been searching for old department store adverts and catalogs and found a couple Wanamaker catalogs from the 1920s that have some info but the most promising is a Gimbel’s catalog from 1911. It shows two sets of Limoges porcelain. Neither pattern matches mine but the shape of the plates and cups match. It lists what came in a 100-piece/12 place setting set.

I know the New York company Vogt & Dose was the sole T&V distributor for the United States and Canada, so I’ve been focusing my search on stores and suppliers in the northeast.

I know it’s extremely unlikely I’ll find an advert with my pattern in it but my plan has been to make the missing pieces. I’m going to use pieces in other patterns to make molds and then use transfers to copy my pattern to the new blanks.

I did happen to find a set of 6 bowls in my pattern on eBay, so I’m still keeping an eye out for originals.

 

@cmetzbower this thread already has three good answers to "where is the catalog" and I can't beat any of them, so let me come at it from the other end. Instead of hunting the paper, I pulled what has actually come to market wearing a T&V mark in the last 90 days. eBay sold listings, not asking prices, 37 closed sales across two searches, dates on everything so you can check me instead of taking my word for it.

Shapes that actually surfaced in those 90 days: dinner plate, 9.5 inch plate, 11.5 inch handled cabinet plate, 7 inch dessert plate, salad plate, 7.5 inch soup bowl, fish plates as a set of six, oyster plate, 15 3/4 inch oval platter, large tray, punch bowl with its own stand at 14.25 inches, footed bowl, lidded biscuit jar, celery dish, mayonnaise bowl with attached underplate, cake plate, teacup and saucer, full tea set, creamer, sugar bowl, pitcher, candlesticks, and one cup listed as a lady's spittoon. So the blank line ran well past a 12 place dinner service, and the smaller versions of your octagonal platter that you already found fit right in with that.

Now the part I think actually answers your question, and it fell out of the listings rather than any reference book. Two rows:

Tressemanes & Vogt Limoges Florida Oranges creamer "for Greenleaf & Crosby", sold 18 Aug 2026, $69.99, with the matching sugar bowl sold 20 Aug 2026, $24.99. Greenleaf & Crosby was a Jacksonville jeweler, not a pottery.

T&V Limoges France "Charles R. Lynde" ivory and gold salad plates, lot, sold 14 Sep 2026, $9.99 at auction. Lynde was a decorating house.

That lines up exactly with what ola402 and dgbjwc already told you. A lot of T&V left Limoges as whiteware and somebody else put the decoration on to a retailer's order. If TRV193 is one of those, there never was a T&V catalog page for it, because T&V did not issue it. The set composition was whatever the retailer or the decorating firm chose to buy in blanks that season, which is precisely why you keep finding your shapes in other patterns and nothing that tells you which shapes carried yours. It would also explain three different backstamps sitting on one set.

One thread worth pulling. I saw "Limoges France T & V Gold Greek Key Rim Dinner Plate No.9188" sell as a set on 22 Jul 2026 for $149.99. That number is on the piece. If any of yours carry a painted or stamped number beside the mark, that is a decorator or pattern number and it is far more searchable than TRV193, which is only Replacements' own filing code and will never turn up on a period document.

On the transfers plan, since that one costs real money: decorated T&V ran a median of about $49 across those 90 days, and plain blanks are cheap. A set of T&V dinner plates in white with gold trim closed 11 Sep 2026 at $24.99, a white and gold cake plate 24 Jun 2026 at $22, and that ivory and gold salad plate lot 14 Sep 2026 at $9.99. Buying period T&V blanks and decorating those may come out ahead of cutting molds, and you would have real T&V bodies under your transfers, which matters a lot if the set is ever appraised.

Post the marks with any numbers next to them and I will run those exact strings and put back whatever comes out.

 

Good Points, but what really makes it hard to answer the original questions is that I have never seen any complete dinnerware sets made solely by T&V. Usually someone else decorated T&V's white ware and most were elaborately decorated jars, bowls, large plates etc. The OP's photos do show what one would expect of a complete dinnerware set but it bears a mark that was only used for about 12 years so there's not a lot of it out there. In post #8 the OP shows all 3 of her marks. The upper older mark would indicate the white ware mark and the lower newer mark would be the decorator's mark, indicating that the white ware was in storage and brought out for decoration a few years on. T&V was bought out by the Martial Raynaud company in 1907 and these dishes were made after 1907 up to 1919. The company did not rename T&V until later. So bottom line: rare marks, hardly ever seen, scarce pieces left, and not really the rage at the time. People wanted T&V's elaborate patterns like Daisy, Holly, and Dogwood along with Game Bird Plates (very popular). I'm beginning to believe that these more conservative, less elaborate patterns were made for the down market (less expensive) to use up the old white ware. But that's just a guess.

 

You can try a "Find this pattern for me" request at both Replacements and at eBay. With eBay you should use the Replacements item number since that's the place most sellers will look trying to ID it. There is also a company called China Finders you might try.

 

Thank you! I’m going to reach out to Replacements but want to get better photos of the pieces first. I looked at China Finders and it appears the one based in Florida has gone out of business. There is China Finders Australia, but it looks like it specializes in English china.

 

Thank you! From what I’ve learned so far, I don’t expect to find a T&V catalog or advertisements. However, since Vogt & Dose was the exclusive United States importer for T&V, I do hope to find some kind of Vogt & Dose product list or sales records but I’m doubtful. All of those records would have been on paper and when the business didn’t need them anymore, would probably have destroyed them.

The marker’s marks I posted above are the only marks on the back of the pieces. I went over every inch of the backside of all the pieces and there’s nothing else. I’m wondering if the pieces that have the retailer’s mark stamped on the back were more limited and specialized vs. those sold at large retail department stores or from catalogs. i.e. those with the retailer mark were special ordered at a higher cost vs. those sold in department stores and catalogs where higher volume of product was needed.

I think Vogt & Dose imported blanks and resold them to the decorators. I found a book called “Rough Notes on Pottery” published in 1896 that had examples of trade marks and advertisements from some of the importers. There was one for Vogt & Dose that had the line, “We carry the largest assortment in New York of French White China for Amateur Decorators, including novelties from all the principal manufactories”. I believe “French White China” refers to undecorated porcelain china but I could be wrong. Given what you said in your post, I wonder if the final retailer purchased the blanks through a decorator or decorated the china themselves. I know some china has the retailer’s mark stamped on the back along with the marker’s mark.

One interesting thing I did find while searching for old records is several copies of the trade journal, “Crockery and Glass Journal” from 1911 and 1912 that had a list of who in New York imported what from where, but it was in general terms. For example, in the list of imports from Antwerp, Vogt & Dose is listed as having imported 15 packages of chinaware. It’s interesting how even though all this took place around 100yrs ago, information is so hard to find. The digital age has shrunk our world more than we will ever realize.

 

The digital age has shrunk our world more than we will ever realize.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

no more so than when we have AI chatty bots , right here answering questions...


...at that point......is it still " our world "..!!

" . and I will run those exact strings and put back whatever comes out."
Who talks like that anyways !