DOLL EXPERTS: Can you help with type of doll? TIA

Native American doll. Papier Mache body; jointed at arms and hips; bisque head with glass eyes. Back of head is stamped 156 (I THINK it is a 6 and not a 0)

I don't think she's a Skookum, but am unsure. Her body is made pretty roughly but her face is very delicate. She measures 11" tall.

Thanks for your help!

 

I can make out a 7? 5 clearly and an 8? on the back of the neck...is there anything else back there under the hairline?

 

I have never seen a Skookum with a bisque head.

She is either Japanese or possibly German.

If you have the head # correct, it could be in the ID.

 

Thanks. Do you know if I go to The Blue Book, for example, can I find doll mfrs by head number? I guess kind a reverse listing?

 

The Blue Book and Patricia Smith's Doll Values both have reverse listings by numbers and both have #156 shown for a few different dolls, none of which resemble your doll.
Your doll head almost looks to me like composition, as do the arms and legs.

ETA:---the reason I say the head resembles composition to me is because I have never seen paint flake off bisque, being porous, the paint would be expected to penetrate deep into the bisque or alternately, the bisque is tinted before molding.

 

The 10th edition of Blue Book that I have doesn't show any Skookums Dolls at all, but the Patricia Smith book says that Skookums dolls have "mask faces" where your head seems to be molded.

 

I'm far from a "doll expert," but am familiar with Skookum dolls, and Native American art, including authentic Native American dolls (as opposed to factory-made souvenir items dressed to represent what the manufacturer thinks a Native American would wear.) I just felt I needed to add a couple observations, before the thread veered off in the wrong direction.

First, there is absolutely no resemblance here to a Skookum doll. Skookums are a registered trademark, manufactured souvenir item, with no connection whatsoever to authentic Native American-made dolls. By definition, they have stuffed straw or excelsior bodies, wood legs, and no arms. They are wrapped in a cotton camp blanket fabric, and have composition (later painted plastic) mask faces, with painted eyes, glancing to the side. If it doesn't have those characteristics, it's not a Skookum doll.

As to this particular doll, I have seen it (the head, at least, since I've never undressed one to see what is underneath) many times over the years. It is usually comes as part of a male and female pair, differentiated solely by hairstyle and the way they are dressed. There are at least three different sizes. I happen to own a pair, (packed away somewhere for years) that are about 14-15".)

The only place I have encountered them in a book, is in The Stuff of Dreams, Native American Dolls by Mary Jane Lenz. One is shown on page 56, identified in the caption only as "a European doll wearing yellow slippers and a gold paper crown."

Based just on the ones I have seen, and on the ones I have, I have always considered them an early European-made manufactured souvenir item. They are not top-of-the-line, but rather cheaply made (which might account for the paint flaking off), often with the clothes glued or stapled on. The heads are attractive, though, and appear to be bisque with glass eyes. They are usually dressed in what might be considered "Eastern Woodland" style, with headbands and feathers.

If I have time tomorrow, I'll see if I can find mine, to see if I can add anything about marks. I don't think I've ever checked. But then, again, I'm certainly not claiming to be a doll expert!

 

Taupou - If I may interrupt with a small question? I have what has been called a "Slookum", and it has all of the characteristics you just mentioned. BUT It does not have the tag...........Can it be CALLED a Skookum without the tag(s)? Thanks!

 

@Taupou Excellent description of Skookum dolls (I'll now know then at sight, ty). I think you're right about the European origin. This doll matches your description. As far as looking for yours, Please don't go to any extra trouble on our behalf. You've given me what I was hoping to find.

Thanks to everyone for your time and knowledge!

 

To answer Mansons, there were at least a couple companies in the U.S. that made knockoffs of Skookums, with all the same main characteristics, but with subtle details that allow collectors to be able to tell the difference. Minnetonka and Minnehaha are the best known. There were also some dolls made in Japan, with celluloid faces. None of those "lookalikes" can be called Skookums.

Some quick differences that come to mind, Skookums will never have grey hair, their eyebrows are usually thinner than those of the knockoffs, and the pupils are smaller. The eyes are often larger and rounder on the knockoffs.

Although they did change some over the years, there were a limited number of faces used on the real Skookums. It often becomes a matter of just being able to identify them from those authenticated by tags, then being able to recognize them. Serious collectors can usually spot a knockoff immediately that way. For the rest of us, it may take awhile. Sometimes it's the face, sometimes the fabric used.

Basically, the knockoffs can't be legally called Skookums, since the name was a registered trademark. But if the tag is gone, it's still a Skookum if it can be determined it has a Skookum face and original clothing.

 

I noticed that as well, and I don't recall ever seeing that before either (peeling paint). However the head features in the photo look fine enough to be bisque............

Mold # 156 was used by Kestner (& some others too) who produced quality dolls.

How the # appears on the back can be helpful.

 

Thanks Taupou! I have compared mine to some I have seen on-line that DO have tags and mine SEEMS to fit all of the general characteristics (which you have mentioned)............the only thing that confuses me is that I can't find one that is "arranged" like mine -

Studio Antiques - I am going to take the chance of incurring your wrath by posting a photo of mine here...................the only REAL justification I can use is that it may go to shoe why yours is NOT a Skookum...but that is a cheap excuse, I know!!!!! My apologies for taking you off track, and my thanks for not coming over the internet and strangling me.............

 

@Mansons2005 don't worry about the detour. It's all interesting to me. I love learning more!!

 

The doll itself is definitely a Skookum. As far as I know, none of the knockoff companies ever made this particular style of large papoose. It's relatively uncommon among Skookums, I think I have only had three for sale over the years. The size, face mask, and little ruffled shirt are all correct.

However, it looks like it has had some "work" done on it. The eyes, obviously, look like someone started to repaint them, but didn't get as far as the pupils. And the coloration of the cheeks and mouth is just about gone. Maybe someone scrubbed a little too vigorously sometime.

The blanket covering may also be a replacement. Every one I have ever seen, in person, online, or in books, was folded so that it met in the middle, not at the side, and edge was folded down (back?) so that the corners made little points on each side.

So I'd say despite the fact that it's in a little rough shape, it's still a Skookum.

 

@Taupou

Thank you so much, I am very appreciative of your knowledge and willingness to share it!

And Studio - thank you for allowing me to share your thread, as it were.

Okay - off to post my little beauty for sale, and to figure out how may bedrooms I will be able to afford in my new Riviera villa...................


let's see, swimming pool or no? four or six car garage? oh, man - quarters for five or seven servants? put the helipad in the garden or on the roof of the east wing? gold or sterling fixtures in master bath? will a marble terrace be practical? is there anyway to fit a Tiffany mosaic in the rotunda? what about the ballroom? any chance of getting Tom Ford to decorate?...............................................

 

Well, WOW! anyway, Tapou!

You're one of the most visually articulate people I've run across

Kudos!