Ivory? Pendant

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by David Askett, Apr 27, 2021.

  1. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    And for those who don't: This type of pendant is an Ethiopian design; imported so widely in the 1960s that the Indonesian cottage industry catering to the bead trade began to make them by the thousands; and eventually, they came to be widely advertised as Northwest Coast Native, or Alaskan; commonly found on ebay with "dates from the 1880s" and even locations, inscribed on the back; and described as Eskimo lances, gambling pieces, NW Coast shaman's charms.
    But if you see one, do not bid. Nobody on the Northwest Coast or in Alaska was copying Ethiopian pendants, whether in the 1880s, 1960s, or now.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  2. David Askett

    David Askett Well-Known Member

    Thanks, All_Fakes. Good to know!
     
  3. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Did Mr. Cox identify the material?
     
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  4. David Askett

    David Askett Well-Known Member

    He believes its walrus ivory, but I’m leaning towards marine shell.
     
  5. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    he is sorely mistaken.........

    upload_2021-5-4_0-39-12.jpeg
     
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  6. Potteryplease

    Potteryplease Well-Known Member


    So are those bone? What kind?
     
  7. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    They are cross sections of walrus tusk. The pendant does not look like any type of shell I've ever encountered. It looks like walrus except for the absence of the inner core of more grainy material. Maybe close enough to the tip it is more solid?
     
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  8. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

    Walrus tusk
     
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  9. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Hey , @Mark London .... please weigh in on whether this looks like walrus to you..!

    "Maybe close enough to the tip it is more solid?"

    it is ....but it's so dense the rear of the pendant would not show any porous dotting...

    and the cracking would only run in one direction...

    upload_2021-5-5_0-9-26.jpeg

    upload_2021-5-5_0-11-42.jpeg

    plus...it gets kinda narrow at the tip...


    upload_2021-5-5_0-15-45.jpeg
     
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  10. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    There may have been some confusion in the posts; but I think (and could be wrong) that in posts #26 and #27, Potteryplease and Bronwen were asking and answering regarding the photos posted by Komokwa in #25, which were sections of walrus tusk. Post #25 indeed shows sections of walrus tusk; and the brooch in post #1 is in my opinion with 100% certainty, not walrus tusk.
    I'm 60% of the belief that post #1 is antler (stag) showing on the back a bit of the porosity found in lengthwise slices of antler; one commonly finds such pieces in the catalogs of knife-making suppliers, sold as stag slabs for knife handles, but I'm sure often used for jewelry. If not antler, it is bone. IMHO (40%). But as noted, there is never any porosity in walrus ivory.
    As to origin, I'd be guessing, but it does not look at all like Eskimo, Aleut, Inuit, or Northwest Coast Native work, and I'd be thinking Africa or India as possible sources.
     
  11. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

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  12. Potteryplease

    Potteryplease Well-Known Member

    I was certainly confused-- so thank you for clarifying!
     
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  13. Taupou

    Taupou Well-Known Member

    I agree, it definitely doesn't look like any Native American, Inuit, or NW coast art I've ever seen. Nor is it walrus ivory.

    A few things bother me, that haven't been mentioned. First, is it possibly not a single slice of whatever material it is made from, or could it be two thin slices? The appearance of the front and back doesn't seem to match up. The cracks don't, nor does the look of the center of the front of the pendant look anything like the back.

    Secondly, though, is there possibly a reason we're not seeing the red stone (?) in the center of the bail? What material is it? Coral? Jasper? Glass? That might be important.

    And finally, the "silver" work is rather crude, to say the least. And do we even know if it is actually silver?

    The red in the center of the bail, combined with the way the silver is made, are similar to some pendants I've seen from Tibet or Nepal. Would that be a possibility?
     
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  14. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    Good points, Taupou; there is something set into the bail - what is it?
     
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