Persian myth, legend or theatre?

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by Ce BCA, May 26, 2021.

  1. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    IMG_20210526_192235457.jpg IMG_20210526_192246287.jpg IMG_20210526_192310947.jpg
    I bought this brass box (about 5" across) from a catalogue pic, it was at the back of a tray and I couldn't see the detail at the time. The box is a pretty standard Persian form, I've had several over the years, they usually have Quranic script or geometric forms and are dated based on calligraphy style and construction. This one though has a frieze of characters, some with animalia masks or as therianthropes, there are also plenty of birds for good measure.

    I can't find any good references for the style, one antique dealer site has a number of items (no boxes) with similar designs which they attribute to a specific Persian metalworker, but this name isn't referenced on any other sites, so not very satisfactory. Christies archives have a larger box with brass panels over wood with similar scenes, they described it as Islamic revellers and dancers - hmm really!

    Does anyone recognise what the characters may be representing, ie a myth or perhaps a theatre artform, or are they from the ancient styles such as Babylonia? It just bugs me if I can't be a bit more specific :(
     
    kyratango, elarnia, Tanya and 7 others like this.
  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    nice box...
     
    NewEngland and Ce BCA like this.
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It is gorgeous, Ce. Have you considered Zoroastrian?
    I think we had similar imagery on a Persian brass item before (a platter?), maybe the amazing @i need help remembers.
     
    KSW, Branka, NewEngland and 2 others like this.
  4. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    I hadn't, thanks will check. I have just found something in the V&A, pic is terrible but description seems to fit - unfortunately they say 'we do not know the significance of the decoration' - bahh!
     
    kyratango, KSW and Any Jewelry like this.
  5. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Very inconsiderate of them.;)
     
    kyratango, KSW, Ce BCA and 1 other person like this.
  6. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    I don’t remember seeing this scene. I’ve done a search of our Forum and the web, but don’t really see similar. @Ce BCA can you post the V&A link?
     
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  7. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

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  8. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    You might concentrate on the term “seated dervish” from their description when searching.
     
    KSW likes this.
  9. Brian Warshaw

    Brian Warshaw Well-Known Member

    They're in good company.
     
    KSW likes this.
  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    If you enlarge the photo you can see that the style and imagery are very different, so I am sorry to say, I don't think it is relevant to your box.:sorry::bag:

    I did find this Neo-Assyrian bird-headed gent, from a relief in Nimrud, Iraq, and wonder if he is culturally related to your therianthropes.

    [​IMG]
    https://collections.lacma.org/node/235417
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
    Figtree3, Firemandk and Ce BCA like this.
  11. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    Ooo, how did you do that - I can only see a small version of the pic.

    I have found a few more references, but nothing conclusive. Some pointers were to the Shahnameh and stylistic references to some ancient Mesopotamian artworks. Nothing conclusive, but perhaps there are ancient artworks in the region which aren't in the Western consciousness. Looks like it will have to have lots of 'influenced and possibly' At least the dating and location is pretty solid.
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  12. Roshan Ko

    Roshan Ko Well-Known Member

    Hi @Any Jewelry Doesnt look Zoarastrian to me. It does not contain the Asho farovar or the winged angel or other similar motifs.
    I did think they were priest praying but it turns out they are carrying spears.
     
  13. Roshan Ko

    Roshan Ko Well-Known Member

    You have to download the picture, which will then able you to zoom in on your desktop.
     
    Ce BCA likes this.
  14. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I am on a laptop and scroll with my mouse wheel while pressing the ctrl key.:)
     
    Ce BCA likes this.
  15. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Figtree3 and Ce BCA like this.
  16. Roshan Ko

    Roshan Ko Well-Known Member

    you are right @Any Jewelry . And the second one is just amazing. To see such relics is amazing.

    The second one is exceptional. Shows the priest and the fire also shows the scepter with the bulls head.

    Thank you for this. truly amazing.
     
    Figtree3 and Any Jewelry like this.
  17. KSW

    KSW Well-Known Member

    That’s an awesome relief!. Just what you see every day, an eagle headed man selecting snacks. His toes are amazing and I keep staring at them!.
    Don’t worry I don’t normally have a thing about toes :bag:.
     
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  18. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I live near the centre of town, so I don't see them that often. People having to wear masks doesn't help either, I can't tell if they have a beak or just a very big nose.:confused:
     
    kyratango, KSW and BoudiccaJones like this.
  19. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It is absolutely stunning. Both are, really.
     
    kyratango and KSW like this.
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