drawing on laid paper 1700 or older help with secret mark

Discussion in 'Art' started by SUPERJUNK1970, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. SUPERJUNK1970

    SUPERJUNK1970 Active Member

    purchased at san Francisco flea market. when i got home and took out of frame to see it was a print but to my surprise it was real and on laid paper. for some reason the frame doesnt look old but the glass was hand blown , called a pane or panel sheet of glass.
    two edges are straght and two are hand cut with pliers. also one side of glass has waves all thru. this glass was used until the 1700's. i also research the laid paper and its also 1700 or earlier. the drawing looks done by a master but there are two parts that look like a child did it and i dont know why. the shadow next to nose looks overdone and two line on both sides of face look too thick , not matching the others, . there is a dark small spot bottom left of chin, when put to sun light it turns luminous yellow, and when uv light aplied it disapears. i did manage to take a picture of a mark that looks like the letter "R".
    please give me your opinion, junk or treasure? 20210830_105626.jpg 20210725_105052.jpg 20210725_104955.jpg 20210830_111226.jpg 20210830_111118.jpg 20210830_110555.jpg 20210830_110125.jpg 20210823_112413.jpg 20210726_005723.jpg
     

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    Any Jewelry likes this.
  2. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I think the paper is machine made.

    Machine made papers can be patterned to look like laid.
    This is a paper made in 1874:
    Dscn9741.jpg

    This paper is c1600:
    Dscn0111.jpg

    On the first example, note how evenly the light is transmitted through the paper. On the second example. the paper is darker at the chains, lighter halfway between them. This is because when the paper was made by hand, the pulp tended to accumulate more heavily at the chains, but with machine made paper, the lines are mold impressed.

    The two spots you see on the older paper are called "Vat Man's Tears". They are from drops of water that hit the paper as it was removed from the vat but still essentially in a pulp state.
     
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  3. Miscstuff

    Miscstuff Sometimesgetsitright

    Found this interesting..
     
  4. SUPERJUNK1970

    SUPERJUNK1970 Active Member

    When I was doing my research, i read a part where the lines that are wider spread, those lines in laid FROM 1700 and before had a shadow or darker appearance because of some chain that created suction during the process. There is a picture that was not blown up that shows that in mine.
    You have to click on the small image under the first 10.
     
  5. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    It's a drawing? Done with what?

    Debora
     
  6. SUPERJUNK1970

    SUPERJUNK1970 Active Member

    Hand made paper= Laid paper
     
  7. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    "Laid paper is a type of paper having a ribbed texture imparted by the manufacturing process."

    Debora

    Screen Shot 2021-08-31 at 9.56.59 AM.png
     
  8. SUPERJUNK1970

    SUPERJUNK1970 Active Member

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