Help with Islamic plate

Hello. I was wondering if anyone can throw some light on this plate. It looks Islamic, so maybe for the Turkish market? Any idea of age or where it was made?

It's thick bodied and looks more like pottery.

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards and warm wishes,
Ken.

 

It has flowers & butterflies. It is not Islamic. It is forbidden to represent living things in their beliefs.

 

Moved to Porcelain Forum. Can you please include a photo of the bottom?

 

That's only partly true, in different periods and different regions you can commonly find living things, even people, on Islamic made items. This is especially the case for tourist and export ware. Currently some of the Islamic regions are very hardline, but go back 50 years and they were much less so. Here is a Persian vase with flowers and birds for example.



In this case I don't think OP's plate it is Islamic though more to do with the style rather than the content.

 

I knew I'd be corrected but didn't know what to correct to. I get an Italian vibe. Looks like there are some chips where the clay can be seen, some pix of that would be useful.

 

Thank you. Unfortunately this is the only photo I have but I remember the back is plain with a watery white slip. Yes, there are some chips and you can see the brown body underneath. It is clay/pottery and not porcelain.

 

Think some terms that would apply to it are earthenware, redware, & terracotta. I'm not one of the ceramics people. They'll have more accurate things to say.

 

It looks as if someone was copying a Chinese Famille Rose plate, doesn't it? As noted above, Islamic art is generally aniconic so not the cultures to which I'd first look. The exuberance of the decoration does point toward Italy but could be Spanish too. Could/would you post a photograph of the bottom please, Ken?

Debora

 

Found it, thank goodness! I knew I had it somewhere. Here are the front and back. The colour is a little on the green side. It looks like unfired clay to me. Thanks so much, everyone!

 

Think if something is glazed it has to have been fired.

 

Agreed— not any Turkish or Islamic world style I know, but depictions of living things were absolutely not forbidden all over the Islamic world. Famously a lot of Persian homes were decorated with images of European women dating back to the 17th century so (in some places) the art didn’t even need to be for export.




Also lots of people/animals/faces at the Islamic gallery at the British Museum (wherever that may be— they’ve moved it since I last visited).
With that style I’d GUESS European.

 

I watched a documentary about this some time ago but can't remember what it was called. It was very enlightening, the town was on a trade route and very cosmopolitan.

 

Would OP's plate be considered majolica?

 

The back looks old... obviously.

 

I think it's more majolica style like from South Europa like Spain or Portugal . But certainly 18e or early 19e century made . but there's also a link to country's like Mexico in this style

 

Thank you. Yes, I even googled "faience", "gypsy", "caucasian", "native", "canal barge" and a host of other keywords, but still can't pinpoint it. Late 18th./early 19th. century dating is also what I expected. It's funny, but it seems to be nothing and yet everything at once.

 

@say_it_slowly

 

Ken Yap, the way the birds on your plate are painted looks Persian/Iranian to me. Although I don't recognize the general style of your plate, I would think it is either from Iran, or from one of the Persian-influenced regions.

Gypsies don't have a native tradition of making ceramics, btw. There have been Gypsy ceramicists (in former times usually slaves), but they worked in the tradition of the region they lived in.

The Western idea that living things are not depicted in Islamic art or art from predominantly Islamic countries is very persistent, but not based on the truth.
Not only is art from Islamic regions filled with depictions of animals and birds, but people are also represented, even the Prophet Muhammad.

I have posted photos as proof of the depiction of living things in Islamic art before, but here are some more.

Kashmiri hunting rug:


Muhammad leads Jesus and Jewish prophets in prayer, Persian miniature:


Afghan rug with animals:


Even in present-day Iran.
Detail of an Isfahan minakari plate:


And even nudity, Adam and Eve on a charming Turkish miniature:

 

Ken Yap, could we see the back of the plate?
Btw, 'Persian influence' covers a pretty large area, so it isn't very exact.