DO I HAVE IMPERIAL RUSSIA PORCELAIN? HELP HERE.

I purchase a 6 person service of antique STERLING decorated porcelain. At the time , I thought THE MONOGRAM in the service was THE MARK of Heintz metal shop, I already know it is NOT AND I was told IT was fairly common to give this as a wedding gift with the new couples INITIALS on it. It was still a beautiful service and Covington brothers of new York were a high end brand so I kept it. One day I was cleaning a plate and noticed some under glazed Mark's that did not match what I supposedly have. I started to read about Covington brothers company and discovered they had a factory fire around the 1915 -1920 that destroyed the building and had to purchase a lot of porcelain from all over the world to replace ordersand continue business until the factory was rebuilt. They just restamp the purchase porcelain with their mark.
Around that time THE ZAR of RUSSIA and his family were killed and their possessions looted . I as I continue my research I learned that THE FLOWER design on STERLING and the cobalt blue was a favorite of queen Alexandra the great and had COMISSION many SERVICE from the gardner porcelain COMPANY in RUSSIA. I also noted that THE MARK for the queen in porcelain was Q. one of the under glaze Mark's. I also know that gardner porcelain made extras for every comission from the queen in case some broke and needed replacement. I also learned that the MONOGRAM HMS was the logo use in ENGLAND and RUSSIA on service porcelain that was carried on the ship the queen travel in. HMS= HER MAJESTY SHIP.
THIS SAID , I am a dreamer and tend to see what I want to see without really having knowledge just what I researched. Please look at my porcelain and give me YOUR opinion.

 

MY SUPER MISTAKE, ITS CATHERINE THE GREAT, NOT ALEXANDRA THE GREAT. IM LOOSING IT.
SORRY.

 

Maybe it's me but I don't follow. You have an English Royal Worcester plate it would seem. Who are Covington and what do they have to do with it? Can't make out what you're trying to show in the black smudges.

 

If I'm reading the registry number correctly this design wasn't registered until just a few years before Nicholas II was assassinated.

 

If it were Russian, the imperial family would have used either a local firm or a French one.

 

THE BLACK SMUDGES ARE BECAUSE I COULD NOT CAPTURE A PHOTO.
The Covington brothers MARK I had to scrub out in order to see the under glaze Mark's.
I will take a photo of the other plates.

 

I MENTION that they could be the extras that were made for catherine THE great and THE SILVER DECORATION COULD have been added later. I BELIEVE she commission the cobalt blue WITHOUT ANY SILVER DECORATION. The color MARKS I think were added later when they were sold in large lots. No imperial family, no need to keep the extras. I'm trying to see if the under glaze Mark's are correct and for what period. The Mark's and DECORATION SAY imperial RUSSIAN but I'm no EXPERT just an amateur Researcher.

 

What registry NUMBER?

The story is long, but here is the short version.
Plates were extras from a COMISSION of catherine THE GREAT to the gardner porcelain COMPANY, an English company that was allowed to establish in russia and got ALOT of COMISSION from the imperial family during catherine THE GREAT rule, later the firm got nationalized by Russia and the name changed. They made the cobalt blue SERVICE without silver
And after made extras FOR the family to replace broken ones.
Around the same time the Covington brothers factory burned , the imperial family was killed and all their possessions looted AND the extra porcelain stored FOR family was sold in lots because no longer needed.
My assumption is that in collaboration or partnership with the english co.
The Covington brothers got that porcelain to keep BUSINESS going while factory got rebuilt. All they did was stamp over the under glaze marks.
I just want to know if the under glaze Mark's are correct, for the commission of the imperial family., and being extras are they worth more or less because of it.

 

The registration no is printed below the mark. If I read correctly the mark you're showing is 1917

https://www.museumofroyalworcester.org/learning/research/royal-worcester-factory-marks/

From 1916 a small star or asterisk appears below the mark.

1916 = * below the mark
1917 = * and one dot
1918 = * and two dots

 

The English design Registry number is partially visible on the right hand side of the image that primarily shows the Royal Worcester mark The number is assigned when the design is first sent to the Registry, not when products using this design are made.

When to you think Catherine The Great of Russia was alive to receive extras or leftovers?

 

this a gardner porcelain COMPANY mark CIRCA 1785.
4 th photo down you can see the mark on the right. It's under glaze but it is the mark. I just cant prove PROVENANCE.

 

I'm not saying the extras were exclusive for her. Since the MONOGRAM says her majesty ship, they could still be used be the next royals.these would have been exclusively on the ship and not the family residence.

 

I give up. You have a bunch of theories here that do not mesh with each other or the history of the family or the various companies you claim to have marked at least some of the pieces. You are trying to make things work that do not.

Good luck with your future research. You're going to need it.

 

I too am having difficulty following the logic of your arguments. There is nothing about your plate that links it to a royal family. And a quick internet search will tell you that dinnerware in royal usage honors the ruler, not the ship. Here, for instance, is a plate used by King Edward VII on his yacht; it carries his cipher. HSM is more logically the monogram of a well-heeled new bride.

Debora

 

Goodness! It was Ovington Brothers, a retailer, and this was a special order for someone sometime after the design was registered in 1916. The fire was back in 1883 and has no relevance. Catherine the Great died long before this design was registered.

 

Debora is also gently pointing out that you are misreading how a monogram works. . .the large M in the center is the initial for the last name. So using your 'wants' it would read: Her Ship Majesty and that would be just silly.

 

Catherine the Great's favourite was actually 'celeste bleu' by Sèvres. She commissioned a 'celeste bleu' service from Sèvres and personally checked the progress of the colour and design. She sent Sèvres' samples back several times because they weren't to her liking.
She did commission the creamware 'Frog Service' from the English Wedgwood company, but like many Russian royals, she preferred French porcelain. (She was German-born, btw)

It was EII. E stands for Ekatarina, Catherine in Russian, II because she was Catherine II.

Part of Catherine's favourite 700 piece 'celeste bleu' dinner set by Sèvres, and a few other knickknacks:

 

I don’t own any knickknacks like that……..

 

Not even in your hoard?

 

Let me look. Err…what exactly do you consider to be knickknacks?
Pretty sure I’d have noticed 700 pieces of Sèvres but one of two of the other pieces could have slipped by?