Featured Ivory in the UK

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by Ce BCA, Feb 6, 2022.

  1. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    Just a heads up, I'm hearing Defra may be enacting the anti-ivory legislation as soon as April this year. It doesn't look like it has been updated so this means all ivory sales in the UK will be banned with NO exceptions for antiques or items with CITES certificates.

    I don't have the details but have also heard even items with very small amounts of ivory (such as an escutcheon on a box) may be subject to controls. I will post an update if I get more info.
     
  2. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    Well, looks like, someday relatives may be inheriting a few things then!:happy::hilarious::joyful::joyful::joyful::):smuggrin::p:D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes: (UNLESS that's NOT in the US)
     
    Boland, judy, KSW and 3 others like this.
  3. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    And all other sales will be going under the table or in back rooms.
     
  4. bercrystal

    bercrystal Well-Known Member

    It has been this way in many states for some time now.
     
    pearlsnblume, judy and Aquitaine like this.
  5. KSW

    KSW Well-Known Member

    So much Ivory goes through the auction houses at the moment. I’d suspect much will become ‘bone’ and as Ruth says, it will go underground.
     
  6. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    High-priced resin will also show up.
     
  7. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    The Ivory Act 2018 creates narrow and carefully defined exemptions to the ban for:

    • Items with only a small amount of ivory. Such items must comprise less than 10% ivory by volume and have been made prior to 1947.
    • Musical instruments. These must have an ivory content of less than 20% by volume and have been made prior to 1975.
    • Portrait miniatures. A specific exemption for portrait miniatures – which were often painted on thin slivers of ivory – made before 1918 and with a surface area of no more than 320cm2.
    • Sales to and hire agreements with qualifying museums.
    • The rarest and most important items of their type. These must be items of outstanding artistic, cultural or historic value, and made prior to 1918. Decisions on applications for such items will be based on expert advice from a selection of institutions deemed to have the necessary knowledge and expertise.
     
    judy likes this.
  8. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    In other words, Granny's ivory jewelry? You're passing it on to the grandkids.
     
    judy likes this.
  9. Sdcookie2

    Sdcookie2 Well-Known Member

    It's a stupid law made by stupid people. Anything pre act should be legal to trade. Just sayin!
     
    kyratango and judy like this.
  10. Shangas

    Shangas Underage Antiques Collector and Historian

    Absolutely agree. Sorry but I don't see what banning antique ivory is going to do to improving the illegal ivory trade. It's like trying to stop people from driving recklessly by removing traffic lights because it stops people from running reds.
     
    kyratango and judy like this.
  11. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    Also when studies were done there was no evidence of the illegal ivory trade coming through the UK. The trade is Africa>Asia>Far East. The existing tight regulation in the West and much higher chances of being caught are reason enough to not filter trade through the UK, along with the major geographical inconvenience.

    There was some limited evidence of some illegal modern carvings shipping into the UK/EU art markets from the Far East, but that could be prevented by banning imports.

    Like most things today all sense of proportion and common sense has been cast aside.
     
    kyratango, Figtree3 and judy like this.
  12. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    I think the UK is right to control antique ivory and with a bit of knowledge by these "institutions" I'm sure most, if not all of my items will fall into the exemptions. Often I have seen ivory being faked to look old, chess pieces, carvings, ect, these fakes (using real ivory) allow elephants to be killed and devalue real antiques. I just hope the government takes on the cost of verifying these antiques, thinking about it, I really only have 2 1820's Canton ivory burr puzzles that may be questioned, if I'm not allowed to sell them (£600 value) I'll be a little annoyed but if it stops the main majority of my antiques being faked then it's a price worth paying. Perhaps ivory in antiques (if the government get it right) will become a mark of authenticity?
     
    Ownedbybear likes this.
  13. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    I have come back to this thread because the UK Gov have made antiques containing above 10% ivory so expensive to sell it's not worth buying or selling them. When I posted in defence of their ban I did so thinking they would take a sensible approach but now there's a non refundable £250 to get each item registered + a £20 cost to transfer to a new owner. £250 for someone to tell me if they think it's "The rarest and most important items of their type. These must be items of outstanding artistic, cultural or historic value, and made prior to 1918" Who decides? they haven't made anything clear, like if you have a A1 vanity box made in Pairs with silver lids ect and inside there are fitted ivory brushes are those brushes to be removed because they are single items or does the boxes "volume" make the brushes less than 10%? Will the stupid cost of registration push up items of ivory or will the market decide it's just not worth the cost and bother? This ban needs to be re-thought, or some of the rarest (and best made) antiques will be lost because the market can't take an extra £270 on each item. IMHO this ban favours the rich whose items can easily take the extra cost but items us mere mortals collect will be stuck in homes until we go, never being able to increase in value and never becoming worth getting registered. If you can only pass on or give away your ivory containing antiques what happens when nobody you know shares your interest? Just imagine no silver 18th c knifes with ivory handles because each knife is a single registration, in fact any single item that can't take an extra £270 on the cost will be lost, are we really going lose that much history especially given that most top end items were made with ivory back in the day.
     
  14. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately legislation is rarely thought through properly. Besides, who cares about old fashioned things like creative and artistic heritage.
     
    808 raver and kyratango like this.
  15. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    I don't think any at all can be sold in my state. Each state in the USA has its own laws on the matter; they can just go with the Federal law or add even more restrictions. Maybe you can sell to a museum, but that's about it.
     
    808 raver likes this.
  16. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    Yes it's not clear at all and the ambiguity makes me think they will have to publish more detail on exactly what the law is saying. I have a 1810-1820 surgical instrument set by Millikin all with I**ry handles maybe worth £400-500 yes I could apply for registration but if it fails (IMO very historic) I'm not only out of pocket for the original item but I'm also down the £250 registration fee and are each item in the set subject to registration or is the whole set classed as one? I have around 9 things that I can no longer sell until I get them registered, 7 out of the 9 will not take an extra £250 and still be economically viable despite them falling into their exemption criteria. These antiques include 4 Cantonese puzzles from 1810's and some Indian carved tourist items from the 1880's, I have 3 table boxes, 2 Vizagapatam and 1 solid Iv*ry box with a miniature set into the top all clearly meeting their exemptions but who is going to take the extra expense, me or the buyer? I'm just glad I never bought items solely because of the material they were made from and I'm very glad they didn't ban everything with Iv*ry in as instead of 9 items it would be 70+.
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  17. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    Can I ask, what will happen to all the artistic and historic history these items represent to your country?
     
  18. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    Beats me. They can be sold in other parts of the USA, just not here. The laws are a bit of a patchwork. That said, no one is howling down on antique stores to stop the sale of really old ivory bits yet. THey have bigger fish to fry.
     
    808 raver likes this.
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