Minton plate help deciphering back stamp please :)

Hello, just bought my first piece of antique Minton at a brocante sale in France - it's not in great condition but I'm interested to learn a bit about it.

I've found resources to show the date marks but I can't for the life of me work out where or what the date mark is on my piece.

It has an impressed mark for Minton which I have read was only used between 1862-1872 which narrows it down somewhat, but I cannot see which year within that range the date mark corresponds to.

I'd LOVE to hear from any more experienced Minton lovers out there who might be able to tell me what's what.

Also one other secondary question - I've Minton pieces similar to this pattern called "India Tree" but they are gilded. This has not a trace of gilding on it (though there is a mark running around the inner rim). How can I tell if it ever had gilding on it,

Thanks for any help !

 

Welcome, Kylie. We'll need pictures of both the front and back in order to help you. If you need assistance with attaching the pictures, just let us know.

 

Thanks sorry they are up now I posted before uploading then they were too large so had to retake... newbie problems. Hopefully should be all clear now!

 

That is definitely the India Tree pattern. Don't worry about gilding or the lack thereof.

 

It's more usually called Indian Tree in my neck of the woods. Definitely that, anyhow.

 

It's A238 on replacements.com, an Indian Tree design.

 

Yes, you're right Indian Tree is correct.

My example seems to be a little different from the most popular style - more blue decoration, and not gilded - but definitely the same theme.

 

My Spode set inherited from a great aunt says India Tree on the back, so that's what I'm used to. But I seen lots of other makers call it Indian Tree.

 

Thanks so much for that info! It's definitely the same design and overall colour match although the colours of my piece appear much more muted than the other replacements.com listing- mine is burnt orange where their image is brick red (for example) - but that I suppose that could be down to batch firing differences.

I'm still struggling a little to get to grips with the date though - replacements.com gives an age of post 1877, but the potteries.org say that the impressed back stamp of Minton (sans the 's') was only in use from 1862-1872. So, if that is correct, it would seem that my piece is earlier?

Also wondering why my piece has a pattern number of D23 rather than A238 - I suppose it's possible Minton reissued the pattern later with a new number?

Sorry to ask so many questions but I've never used replacements.com as a tool for dating pieces before so I'm not sure how reliable the information is from each source

 

Oh interesting! If you have it written on a piece, you'll be right no doubt. The Internet consensus is "Indian tree" but could be because that sounds more grammatically correct to modern sensibilities

 

It's not "written" it's part of the printed backstamp.

 

.... and just realised that is could actually be A23 not D23...which starts to make more sense

 

I think yours says A23, but for the rest, I don't know.

 

Sure, I assumed it was part of the stamp. I should have said "in writing", that's what I meant.

 

I just looked over at Replacements, and they are calling the Spode design Indian Tree, not India Tree. Not sure why and of course they don't show the back side. The painted design number on mine is S280.