Silver or not? 19 century?

Hi there! Recently I found some old stuff in my grandparents house. My grandfather moved from Koningsberg in early’s 50s and bring it in his new home. Legend say that this is chinese silver cup and milk jog, but? No any marks to approve it. Any insight that anyone has would be greatly appreciated

 

Welcome Lovetsky.
The beautiful cup or beaker is Chinese Export silver, very sought after. The mark says Zu Yin, which is a very high fineness silver.

The milk jug is not Chinese style, and the mark doesn't look Chinese to me. Could it be Cyrillic?

 

Thank you! Really very helpful. About milk jug. Now it seems to me that something like "STEYI. 72" is stamped on the mark

 

Hi, Lovetsky, imo it is not Cyrillic (my mother tongue is Cyrillic-writing). Cannot discern a single letter. Don't think it is Latin, too, no idea what script it is. Sorry for not being able to help.
It looks to me like Nepalese or Sri Lankan but again, not sure, no knowledge of these languages.
Wasn't it already Kaliningrad in the early '50s? It was renamed in 1945 as far as I know. And over a million Germans were deported to Siberia and Kazakhstan by Stalin around that time and the town was inhabited with Russians. I ask because sometimes the history behind an item can help identify.
B.t.w. the Koenigsberg Germans deportation is one of the numerous crimes against humanity done by Stalin - he was very fond of doing deportations and exterminations. Many Germans perished along the way, others could not survive the harsh conditions in Siberia. I have a friend who is a descendant of such German family and have been told stories.

 

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear, it is the smaller mark on the left that says Zu Yin.
The mark on the right is a maker's mark, I'll see if I can find it.

 

My mother-in-law's family was originally from Königsberg, long before it became Kaliningrad.
It began with a 17th century Königsberg shipwright who joined the VOC, the Dutch East India company. His descendants are a mix of European, Javanese, and even Mongolian.

 

Lovetsky, I couldn't find the maker's mark, but you could ask Adrien von Ferscht, who is an expert:
https://chinese-export-silver.com/about-2/

 

I'm finding some sales that are saying they are Carl Steyl. The earlier German silver rating of 12 loth (.750 purity) I think would fit the mark but I also don't have any real info.

https://www.ebth.com/items/10680661...0-silver-fiddle-handle-spoon-mid-19th-century

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/39746787_silver-serving-cutlery-2-pieces-by-carl-steyl-c-1910

https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lot...-Ladle/18cin002m212-antique_carl-07.1.18-ebth

https://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_b1884_6.html



https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/34683132_six-silver-carl-steyl-serving-spoons

 

Any, quite normal, I think, for ocean explorers and shipbuilders.

I don't see it on the picture but the topic starter should see better, so it really could be Steyl At least very plausable.

 

Absolutely. There was already a link between the Netherlands and the Baltic through the Medieval Hanseatic league.
And on Java Europeans were encouraged to marry or have relationships with local women, because it resulted in a better understanding of language and culture, and good trade relations. (And to reduce visits to brothels and infection with nasty diseases.)

 

Sure. TBH, I first heard about the Hanseatic League recently, when visiting Hamburg, then Tallinn. Rich, independent and well developed cities, no doubt. Hamburg is unique, I was told Germans call it 'Die Perle' - and for a reason! Tallinn is nice, too, but the Soviet rule has its consequences.

Very clever, I would say. I can understand it although I come from a very settled culture. In our peasant past if a girl married a guy from the village next to hers, her mom and dad would cry and she would be pitied by the whole village for going to live so far away Not that it happened often. It was during the times when your ancestors travelled to the other end of the globe (haha, the globe has no end, actually ) and married there. Different worlds...
P.S. I have the feeling that we will again drift away from the topic...

 

We are a small country looking out on a vast ocean.
Besides, it all began because the Netherlands were fighting for independence from the Spanish.
The Spanish army was very strong on land. So what better way to fight them than take their riches from them on the open sea and in their (Portugal's) colonies. If the Dutch could control the spice trade, the Spanish would lose income, and the Dutch could fund their fight for freedom.
Of course things got out of hand, as they usually do, which ultimately led to colonisation.
But we did become an independent nation by taking Spain's money, after great losses and devastation in most of our country.

 

Any, it is often like this - any challenge is an opportunity for achievement. And you did it. Colonisation was a normal practice at that stage of the human development, everybody did it (who could, of course). Not that it is good but this is how it was.

In our case, however, it did not work out like in yours - we were part of the Ottoman Empire and struggled to gain independence without success. Maybe we did not manage to figure out the right strategy. Or were not so full of purpose like you. I don't know.

 

It is always a combination of things. The right time, the right opportunity, enough good startegists and leaders to be born in the same generation, and money. The Netherlands were lucky to have that combination.

Many Dutch towns were already rich through the Hanseatic trade when they revolted against Spain, and they could raise funds to start. They needed outside money to continue, and that is where the Asia trade came in.
Bulgaria probably had no funds to begin with, because they had been bled dry by the Ottomans and long periods of wars. Unlike the Hanseatic towns they had no starting capital.
I guess they also didn't have a considerable and educated middle class like the Dutch did, which helped in organising people and funds. The Netherlands were the first modern republic, they didn't rely on kings or high aristocracy to get things done.

 

a cup , and a jug.......and a major history lesson ....

what a great site this is !!