ID help for cut & polished Water & Wine stems

maybe someone will recognize these. thought maybe one of those obscure Fostoria's but no luck. measure 6-5/8" tall x 3-3/4" diameter for the water & 4" diameter for the wine/cocktail.
thanks for looking
tia for any help...

 

okay, fairly certain thee are Tiffin #17643 c1960, but not sure about the cut motif. "R" has a few different design motifs on this stem but not the cut motif here. Anyone have any Tiffin info on the cutting?

http://www.replacements.com/webquote/TIF17643.htm



whoops... scratch that as it looks like #17644 stem looks the same but with this cutting is called 'Theme' c1959:
http://www.replacements.com/webquote/tif17643.htm



anywho thanks for lookin'.. it helps me to see them here...