Featured 1804 England Agreement Letter With Seal Lion and Shield,16 Shillings

Discussion in 'Ephemera and Photographs' started by antiquelover69, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. antiquelover69

    antiquelover69 Well-Known Member

    SAM_8957.JPG SAM_8958.JPG SAM_8967.JPG SAM_8970.JPG SAM_8974.JPG SAM_8969.JPG I got this letter from the estate of a friend 's family,his mother was an antique dealer for years he had all kind of strange rare items I bought some items from him this is one a 2 page agreement letter for some land the best I can make of it,I can't read the whole letter can't really make out all the words,there's an embossed seal that has agreement 1804 Sixteen Shillings with a shield and 2 Lions,another stamp the only word I can make out is P. Quire,the only signature I can make out is James dufton,anyone know this person or can read this letter.
     
  2. yourturntoloveit

    yourturntoloveit Well-Known Member

    Not sure if this will help (not even sure if you have already made out the writing) but on the lower right side of the document in the above photo I am reading:

    "X mark
    of ???? Fearue"
     
  3. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    James Dufton is one of the witnesses to the "Mark" (signature) of Joshua Fearne?, who seems to live in the County of York (probably the one in England.)

    We can read more of it if you can get better photos posted. Take them straight on to the paper, not at an angle, and fairly close (which means you'll need several to cover the entire sheet. We have several members who are pretty good at figuring out old writing, but they'll need a better view of what's written.
     
  4. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Rather large sum of money involved for the time - one thousand three hundred and fifty pounds lawful English money.
     
    Christmasjoy and i need help like this.
  5. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    The date looks more like 1813 to me?
     
  6. antiquelover69

    antiquelover69 Well-Known Member

    Wow that was a lot of money at that time.I'll try to get closer pictures,thanks
     
  7. sabre123

    sabre123 Well-Known Member

    £90,000 in today's money, approximately.
     
  8. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

  9. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    It is 1813. If 1804 is also on the document that probably would mean the transaction happened earlier and was not filed until later. But I can't tell.

    Looks like the purchaser was (Jos.?) Field Junr. I'm reading that in the sheet that was used for filing, that is more readable than the rest.

    Also, the last name of the other witness was Smith.
     
    antiquelover69 and Bakersgma like this.
  10. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Not parchment in this case, but paper. You can see the laid lines in the 4th photo.
    The embossed stamp at the beginning (a notary's seal?) says 1804. The notation on the back (?) says 1813. I am wondering if this is a later transaction/transfer of whatever is described in the main text.
     
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  11. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    @antiquelover69 , Looks like you posted this to the Collectors Weekly site two years ago?

    https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/203911-1800s-agreement-letter-county-of-york-e

    Some info was given, but no explanation yet of the stamp. I suspect the blind stamp (embossed stamp) was not created just for this document, so it may refer to something like the date of an agreement or law, or the date of somebody's license? Or something else like that that might have had nothing to do with this particular document.
     
  12. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    Ok, the following link goes to an article that explains the duties that were charged for financial agreements in Great Britain. 16 shillings was the fee charged during the reign of George III. This item describes the dates of the various statutes about this. It describes minor changes to the laws, including a change that occurred in the 44th year of the reign of George III. That year was 1804. (Financial Reform Tracts: Civil List. Issues 1-35 in Google Books)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=9q0uAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq="stamp"+"sixteen+shillings"+"agreement"&source=bl&ots=GbVw49qI4V&sig=2sF12_IHHQeGA04mXyFI0PsgNgY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiL047ImJjfAhXlqIMKHcvMDzUQ6AEwAnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q="stamp" "sixteen shillings" "agreement"&f=false

    So what this means is that the embossed stamp is very likely to be just a required legal stamp to put on documents of the period and it indicates the statute or law was applied.

    And I'm sorry that those of you outside the United States may not be able to see the item in the link! Google Books often has that problem. I looked for another digitized version of this but didn't find it quickly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  13. antiquelover69

    antiquelover69 Well-Known Member

    Thanks so much,I will look at links.I just hate to get rid of items when I don't know anything about it.
     
    Figtree3 likes this.
  14. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I have some similar documents from the Victorian period. A large portion of those is concerned with establishing a chain of ownership to prove that the seller has the right to sell. They can also cover outstanding claims against the property.

    Most of these documents that I have seen include a map of the property. Does yours?
     
    antiquelover69 likes this.
  15. antiquelover69

    antiquelover69 Well-Known Member

    No there was no maps
     
  16. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    I believe this is due to a difference in copyright law, nothing to do with Google.
     
  17. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Just to clarify: by "map" I mean a diagram showing the shape and dimensions of the property. They are frequently on the backside of the folded document. Maybe that was an optional nicety.
     
    antiquelover69 likes this.
  18. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Sure would be nice to see some new pictures.
     
  19. antiquelover69

    antiquelover69 Well-Known Member

    No pictures,no diagram.Might have been one years ago but I don't have it.
     
  20. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    Here, the maps are often separate. This is only one part of a set of deeds, you might have a mortgage, any land charges and other things.

    Yes, 16/- was a fair bit - stamp duty is still payable on some house sales here and can be very substantial.
     
    antiquelover69 and i need help like this.
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