Featured After Jules Arsene Garnier

Hi folks

something else i picked up at local auction(8),

was advertised as just a gilt framed picture, but could see brush strokes on one side in the light

its painted on board and signed (i presume) after Garnier, so isn't trying to fob itself off as an original artwork

from looking into it online. i can't seem to find the original painting only an old black and white etching

there does't appear to be any paper attached to the board but the image is almost identical to the etching, so find that a bit fishy unless its been done really well or traced somehow

worth it for the frame alone, but needs a little spruce up

very decorative though

any thoughts or info appreciated

 

some pencil on the inside back, artist and title, but not sure the other part

 

I can read "Florentine" in pencil.

Debora

 

Agree re "After." It's rather crudely done for Garnier. Here's his signature. Wonder where the original is and how the copyist had access to it. Or perhaps he worked from the etching which is period.

Debora

 

The title on the back is "Joyeux Buveurs", Jolly Drinkers.
Garnier's title may have been different.

 

Cool find. I also like the frame. Personally I was thinking it was quite well done (but my art knowledge sucks) So this copy wasn’t meant to deceive or be a fraudulent or the artist/copier would have make more of an effort to get the signature right/similar? Wonder about the original.

 

I'm also seeing the title 'A Jovial Bout/Repas Champêtre' but may be incorrect.

https://www.istockphoto.com/vector/...e-garnier-19th-century-gm1372574416-441644556

Debora

 

The Florentine could refer to the frame I think, which is lovely.

 

Ditto. There seem to be other framing directions as well.

 

thanks Deb, yeah i would would love to see the original, just out of interest. Not sure it exists though from what i can tell, so yeah based off the etching

 

thanks House, got me work cut out with that though. the plaster has a metal skeleton and corner bits that slot in and out,and one is loose

 

Pity it wasn’t carved wood Charlie, you’d be quids in. I’ve got many frames here to fix up but nothing as elaborate as yours.

 

yeah i'm quite looking forward to working on the frame, at least plaster will bind better with milliput, i'm getting quite the milliput master, wonderful stuff

 

Another copy signed "F Caille".
https://www.rouillac.com/en/lot-260-83781-dapres_jules_arsene_garnier_1847_1889repas

 

Still,for 8 pounds-not bad,especially compared to some of the inept modern copies.Be fun working on the frame,making latex molds and such.

 

don't like the colours on that one but looks the same type i would think, interesting that the signatures are quite similar style and colour etc

i guess the colours would vary on these type of copies as no original to go by

 

Caillé sometimes painted over prints, though he may well have had the talent to make a copy from scratch:
https://www.antiquitaeten-tuebingen...flicta-von-f-bohumil-doubek-f-caille-um-1900/

 

To me it looks like a retouched and varnished print...

If painted in a traditional way (even as a master copy) there would be paint all along the edges. That's even how we verify authentic masterworks today. All I see is a faint white line edge at the surface and the wood darkening from a varnish top coat.

And then there's the brush strokes. Typical retouched pieces will have thick, quick, and very casual paint application on highlights, collars, fabric, etc. but almost never on the face details or delicate parts of the hands. If this was a real painting in a more impressionist style, then these areas would have a similar stroke pattern and style.

And then there's the very perfect copy. I'm not on my computer but I'm being if we lined them up they would be exact. You look at the curved line of a back, the negative space shape between figures, etc. The things that change ever so slightly when you copy something from scratch.

I would be very happy to be wrong but it doesn't smell right to me.

 

I bet both copyists were working off the etching. That would explain the variations in palette.

Debora

 

and a really horrible palette with that one, turns my stomach