Featured Antique Delft Plate - Age and origin ????

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by 15Stiftgasse, Dec 17, 2020.

  1. 15Stiftgasse

    15Stiftgasse Well-Known Member

    Hello, thanks for taking the time to read my post.

    I'm hoping to double my 'collection' of antique blue and white plates - which currently stands at just one item !

    I'd be grateful if any experts out there would be able to suggest the possible age and origin of the plate pictured below. I've tried online to find out whether the absence of a foot rim gives any help to pinning down an age range, but unfortunately drew a blank.
    I believe the plate to be probably c18th or maybe even c17th, but I'm no expert !

    There are some minor edge chips, probably due to the metal mounting, but the plate is otherwise (allegedly) in good nick. I've got the chance to purchase the plate, but am currently umm-ing and aah-ing as it's not cheap (€180). Furthermore the two hour drive to examine the plate in person is a bit off-putting, so I am currently deliberating whether to buy by post - plus the risks that come with it.

    Thanks in advance for any contributions whatsoever !!!

    057_-1305609192.jpg 057_-830476414.jpg 057_-371988210.jpg 057_-1851067953.jpg
  2. MT Vessel

    MT Vessel Well-Known Member

    I’m no expert but I would like to know the diameter of the plate. I must say, it’s very attractive, presumably Dutch Delft and, I think could be 18th C. although I wouldn’t have thought earlier. Even if later, the price seems good but that is assuming that it is reasonably large. By the way, most old delft has rim fritting / damage.

    I think the experts will shed plenty of light on this.
  3. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    The variation in colour of the back suggests overpainting/repairs although don't see any evidence of repair on the face side
    15Stiftgasse and Danijela Pope like this.
  4. 15Stiftgasse

    15Stiftgasse Well-Known Member

    Hello Blooey ! Thanks for your comment. Could you possibly be more specific as to which areas you are referring to ? I've got a couple more pics of the reverse, should they be of any use to you. Thanks !!!! 52ce118b-40a5-11eb-9532-43ba255f73fb.jpg 057_-371988210.jpg
    Danijela Pope likes this.
  5. MT Vessel

    MT Vessel Well-Known Member

    Repairs are common enough on delft pottery because it is very easily damaged being a hard tin glaze over a soft body. In fact, with antique pieces, it is expected to be damaged, particularly around the rim and is perfectly acceptable providing it isn’t too extensive. I can’t see restoration to your plate and the presence of ‘pin holes’ through the glaze would generally disappear if over-painted. However, it is easy to test for restoration simply by running something like the point of a nail file gently over the back. Try it first on a cheap domestic plate and you’ll find the point skids over glaze. Tap it with the point and it is rock hard. Now do the same on the delft. If it is restored you’ll feel a difference, especially going from an unrestored area to a painted area. However, some modern restoration glazes are remarkably hard. I don’t have a UV light but these are used for detecting restoration. I think restored areas fluoresce whereas perfect areas don’t.
  6. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    Looking at your second pic, the areas I thought were overpaint have moved :jawdrop: :smuggrin: so it must have been the lighting/reflection that I was looking at.
    I think the plate is probably OK and hasn't had restoration after all:shy:
  7. 15Stiftgasse

    15Stiftgasse Well-Known Member

    Many thanks to MT Vessel and blooey for taking the time and effort to make your much valued comments !!!

    I am much obliged to you.
    KikoBlueEyes and MT Vessel like this.
  8. 15Stiftgasse

    15Stiftgasse Well-Known Member

    Hello MT Vessel ! I have just learned from the seller that the diameter of the plate is 22.5cm (about 8 3/4 inches) - a bit smaller than I had anticipated - so I am currently deliberating as to whether to make an offer (- perhaps maybe €140).
  9. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Is there more of the mark under the strap?
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  10. 15Stiftgasse

    15Stiftgasse Well-Known Member

    I suspect so. If you look at the close-up picture of the back of the plate, you can see a small hole punched through the metal strap (just above the maker's mark). I might be clutching at straws here, but through the hole, there appears to be a blue/grey almost vertical line, which may be part of the marking.
    MT Vessel likes this.
  11. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    I did try looking for a similar mark from just that bit but didn't see one. It would be good to know if there is more to it.
    15Stiftgasse and James Conrad like this.
  12. MT Vessel

    MT Vessel Well-Known Member

    Smaller than I imagined too! It’s too easy to have misconceptions about actual size by looking at photos. I like the plate and, assuming condition to be good, would certainly put in an offer. Perhaps try a bit less because it is quite small. You can always come up. I love old delft but, alas, postage to Australia is prohibitive.
    15Stiftgasse likes this.
  13. 15Stiftgasse

    15Stiftgasse Well-Known Member

    Thanks again for your help !
  14. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    My heart has the tenderest spot for old Delftware. I just recently remodeled my kitchen and put windowed cabinets up next to the ceiling. Just last week I moved some of my old ceramics including some of my Delft pieces into those cabinets and I'm still getting used to it. At least they won't need dusting:)

    If you end up with more complete photos of the mark I'd be happy to look through a few books to see if I find it. It might require removing that plate holder and there may be some damage to the rim under so that's something to ponder before attempting if you do decide to purchase.
    15Stiftgasse likes this.
  15. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

  16. John Brassey

    John Brassey Well-Known Member

    It’s a lovely piece. I sold two bigger plates of a similar quality on eBay a few months ago for £245 so I reckon you should be looking to pay no more than £80 or €88
    15Stiftgasse likes this.
  17. 15Stiftgasse

    15Stiftgasse Well-Known Member

    Hello guys ! I have made an offer for the plate, but it was immediately rejected by the vendor, who claims to be holding out for the full (or near full) asking price. I must admit that this plate business is starting to get on my nerves a bit. It's cost me (and yourselves) time and effort. After requesting further photos, it can be seen that at least one metal arm of the frame has chipped the rim - although the plate was advertised as being in 'perfect' condition ! It makes me wonder if there are any other surprises waiting in store - a faint hairline, perhaps ?
    I've decided not to improve my offer, but rather try to forget the whole issue.
    Sincere thanks to you all for your help and advice.
  18. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    I don't know anything about Delft. I suspect you made the right decision, though. I see something and if I have a chance to really consider, I sometimes lose the emotional connection and logic prevails. You perhaps learned some things during this discussion that might be helpful in the future. Your plates await!
    15Stiftgasse likes this.
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