Featured Antique Waltham Hunter Pocketwatch. 15j. 1919.

It's been years since I bought a pocketwatch, but today, I broke the dry spell for something which I found at my local flea-market.

It was pouring with rain and because of this, the market was literally half-empty. Row after row of empty stalls with nobody in them. I wandered around, trying to find anything worth buying...I was gonna just give up and go home, and I was on my way out, when I stopped at one last stall along the way, with some stuff in a glass display-tower.

And this watch was in it. I noticed there was something a little different about it, so I waved the guy over, and he popped it out for me to have a look!



On the surface of it, it doesn't look like anything too special. A gold-filled hunter-case watch - one of millions that were manufactured in the 1800s and 1900s. Well, the moment the cover popped open, you could start seeing the difference...



That's right! A dial oriented to 12 o'clock! Not something you normally see on these old pocketwatches. It's usually a feature of modern pocketwatches. And in passing - the dial is literally - flawless. No cracks, no chips, no hairlines or damage of any kind at all - an almost impossible feat, given that this watch is 102 years old!

I've always wanted an antique pocketwatch with this configuration, but as anybody who collects old pocketwatches will tell you - this orientation is NOT common, so I never thought I'd ever find one! But when I saw this, I knew I'd hit the jackpot, so I bought it!



The watch features a respectable, 15-jewel mechanism in running order. Not top-hole, but close enough to it, to make purchasing the watch, and paying for its restoration worthwhile. I'm already planning on sending this to my friend (he's a watchmaker) to get it overhauled. I can't wait til I can get to use this!

The inner dust-cover comes with a birthday inscription! Normally, I hate antiques with engravings on them, but I do love collecting antiques with commemorations such as these - items that were given as gifts to mark things like Christmas, or birthdays. Whoever D.J. Leathem was, he must've meant a lot to somebody for them to splash out on a 15-jewel ticker for him on his 21st birthday!

 

Interesting! My coin silver Waltham is a bit older I think, (1890's?) but also has the numerals in the same position? Had no idea the numeral placement was a rarity! Thanks!

 

I must've seen thousands of antique hunter-case watches in the 20-odd years that I've been into them, and I've hardly EVER seen any with the dial oriented to have 12 o'clock under the crown - the way that most modern hunter-watches are set up.

I have seen ONE OR TWO, so I knew they existed, but that was only ever somewhere on the internet - never in person! They're so rare, I never thought I'd ever see one. So when I saw this, I had to have it!

Incidentally, the serial-number on my watch, when entered into online serial-number databases, lists the watch as:

"Model 1908, made in 1919. Open-face orientation".

So I'm thinking that this watch was originally an open-faced movement set into a hunter-style case. But that said, I can't imagine that this was a common occurrence. Like I said, I've hardly ever seen it. If I saw 100 antique hunters, I'd say that 99 of them have the more traditional 3 o'clock orientation.

 

I don't know what you mean by the orientation of the face. 12 o'clock at the top seems standard to me. Can you show a pocket watch that is oriented as you consider to be common?

The Waltham is a fine looking watch.

 

TY for asking that question.....................I thought as you did/do.

 

99 percent of hunter case watches have the crown at the 3 o’clock position.

This one has the crown at the 12 o’clock position. I’ve hardly ever seen that on anything but modern pocketwatches.

That’s why this one stood out to me.

 

This is the normal configuration of an antique hunter watch...



...and here’s mine. See the difference?

Find me another one set out the same way that isn’t brand new. You could be looking for a very long time... I‘be hardly ever seen one.

 

What a wonderful find! Thanks for explaining about the orientation! I'm going to have to go look at mine! Can you say when the transition from 3 o'clock to 12 o'clock occurred?
Cheerio Leslie

 

I guess it pays to know what the Crown is...........

 

Wonderful watches! And I learned something... I didn't even know that a hunter-case watch is the one with a cover that can flip down or up over the dial.

 

Hunter case watches get their name from the fact that they were originally designed for people who were engaging in outdoor activities...like hunting.

Almost every antique hunter case watch that I have ever seen opens at 3.

Mine opens at 12, a feature I have only ever seen on modern hunter watches. I would think that the change happened relatively recently - around the 1990s.

 

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the history of pocket watches and cases. Both the pocket watch cases you show in your pictures have the hinge located 180 deg from the crown; they are the same type of hunter case. It is the movement that is different in the two pictures, and the movement in your watch is not designed for that type of case. Both types of movements were being made for both types of pocket watch cases: open face and hunter cases. This should be clear from this link: https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/watchcases.php

Your watch configuration is rare simply because it is being used incorrectly. It is an open face watch movement in a hunter watch case. This was probably not done by the original jeweler, but by a later repairman who happened to have the right size case, even though it was the incorrect type. Any mismatched case and movement will have the same configuration.

 

I'm aware of that, but like I said - it's hardly ever seen. That's why I bought this one. I've always wanted an antique one in this configuration.

 

The problem is that the marriage of the watch movement and case could have happened at any time, even a week before you found it. It's true this this configuration is hardly ever seen, but we hardly ever see a period queen anne table with a plywood top either. It's rare, but for most collectors it would be better restored to period correct configuration. But if this configuration works better for you, that's great.

Blooey's case and movement are correct together, because both are open face.

 

I can't wait to send the watch to my friend. He's a semi-retired master watchmaker. He closed his shop last year, but he still works from home doing clocks and pocketwatches as a side-hustle. He said I was welcome to post the watch to him for servicing.

Once I've scraped together the money (he insists on cash-payments), I'm gonna wrap the watch up and drop it in the mail

 

I have several watches I'd like to get repaired. I haven't been to a watch repairman since the 1990's, and there are fewer every year. Can I ask how much he charges, assuming just a cleaning and no parts need replacing, and what country he is in?

 

You won't find him online. He's closed his website, and his shop. The only reason I get to send my stuff to him is because I've been going to him for the better part of 20 years, and he does it as a favour.

He's in Australia. Melbourne, specifically. The watch is physically - fine. No damage, no rust that I can see, no mechanical issues. It runs, winds and sets as normal. But it just needs a damn good cleaning.

For a standard strip, clean, oil and overhaul, it's $350AUD. He's been doing this for over 40 years. He's fixed every single one of my pocketwatches since I was 15. He also does antique clocks and when he had his shop, he also did other mechanical things (musical boxes, barometers, etc, etc).

 

@Jeff Drum
Jeff -

I'm in southern New Hampshire, and I had some work done by a watch guy in NH who I think is very good at what he does, but I also think he is:

1) very expensive,
2) way too (vocally/politically) opinionated, and
3) too far off in his estimates of how long his work will take.

IF you go in informed about him (as I did not!) you probably won't have any problems, but I was a rather naive consumer, and I feel he "walked all over me".

In any case, I believe he did very good work, and I think that if you go in knowing what to watch for (no pun intended) you might be quite satisfied.

In case you're interested, this is the guy:

Norman Croan, Jr. Pres.
5 Caron Rd.
Bedford, NH 03110
603-472-3860 (phone)
603-471-0724 (fax)
Watch Repair - Specialized Restoration of Rolex (mitime.com)

 

What Wikipedia says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_watch

Hunter-case watches
A hunter-case pocket watch is a case with a spring-hinged circular metal lid or cover, that closes over the watch-dial and crystal, protecting them from dust, scratches and other damage or debris. The name originated from England where "fox hunting men found it convenient to be able to open their watch and read the time with one hand, while holding the reins of their 'hunter' (horse) in the other hand".[9] It is also known as a "savonnette", after the French word for soap (savon) due to its resemblance with a round soap bar.[9]

The majority of antique and vintage hunter-case watches have the lid-hinges at the 9 o'clock position and the stem, crown and bow of the watch at the 3 o'clock position. Modern hunter-case pocket watches usually have the hinges for the lid at the 6 o'clock position and the stem, crown and bow at the 12 o'clock position, as with open-face watches. In both styles of watch-cases, the sub-seconds dial was always at the 6 o'clock position. A hunter-case pocket watch with a spring-ring chain is pictured at the top of this page.

An intermediate type, known as the demi-hunter (or half-hunter), is a case style in which the outer lid has a glass panel or hole in the centre giving a view of the hands. The hours are marked, often in blue enamel, on the outer lid itself; thus with this type of case one can tell the time without opening the lid.

 

Never owned a half-hunter watch. Don't think I would ever use one.

My watch is packed and ready to go. I've posted it to my watchmaker, and if I'm lucky, in 2-3 weeks, it'll be back!

I'm not sure WHY pocketwatches changed from the 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock orientation, when it came to hunter-watches, but hey...they did.