Featured ANYBODY READ CHINESE? LARGE OLD CHARGER/PLATTER HAS BEEN REPAIRED - WORTH KEEPING?

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by journeymagazine, Dec 24, 2017.

  1. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    I asked about this several months ago on eBay's collectible board; I don't remember if I found it in a storage unit or what, but it was already repaired when I got it.
    I asked if it was worth keeping or was it just a 'factory' produced tourist piece - most thought it was worthless, but 1 person said they thought it might be ... (can't remember word/name) and I should check it out further.
    So I am hoping someone here knows what I have or can read the back, so I know what to do with it?
    Thank you - and Happy Holidays all!!
    PS - It's large: 19" across x 3" deep.

    AA EBAY NEW A COLLECTIBLE EBAY POTTERY CHINESE PLATTER 1AA.jpg AA EBAY NEW A COLLECTIBLE EBAY POTTERY CHINESE PLATTER 2AA.jpg AA EBAY NEW A COLLECTIBLE EBAY POTTERY CHINESE PLATTER 3AA.jpg
     
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  2. aaroncab

    aaroncab in veritate victoria

    The mark looks like a Ming dynasty "Chengua"(1465-1487) mark to me

    http://gotheborg.com/marks/mingmarks.shtml


    - but I have no idea if the piece otherwise would fit into that age/style - as I have no real knowledge - I would guess it's much newer (older marks are put on new pieces all the time) - but again I don't really know anything.
     
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  3. Shangas

    Shangas Underage Antiques Collector and Historian

    Fake Chinese antiques are absolutely everywhere, to the extent that you can't trust what it says on the label anymore, as it were. To be absolutely certain of anything at all, you'd need to track down an expert in Chinese ceramics.
     
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Aaron is right, it is the Chenghua mark. But the mark is one of the least important things in establishing the age of Chinese porcelain.

    Some things look pretty convincing to me, but we need to know and see more:
    If you measure the top diameter in differently places, is it always the same size? Or is the shape slightly warped?
    Do you see a lot of tiny scratches in the glaze?
    Could we see pictures of the edge of the footrim, where the glaze meets the unglazed lower part of the rim?
    Also pictures of the sides, please. We would like to see all the decorations, the way they are painted, and the colour of the painting and the glaze. That way we can also see the lustre from different angles.
    And one detailed shot of the decoration with the most blue, using a flash please. That way we can hopefully see where the cobalt originally came from, which helps to see if this could be Chenghua.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  5. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    I will get the photos - thank you!
    Merry Christmas all!
     
  6. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Merry Christmas!
     
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  7. terry5732

    terry5732 Well-Known Member

    The base is mostly glazed. It was fired on a stilt.
     
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  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Agree, on five.
     
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  9. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    The decoration looks more like Japanese to me.
     
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  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    That was my first thought too, certainly the inside painting. But when I delved into my old Chinese porcelain books, I remembered the Chenghua period was a time of experiments in design, including that almost (later) Japanese-like kind of stylization. During the Ming period the Japanese ordered a lot of porcelain from China.
    I don't know much about Japanese porcelain, but I believe the first Japanese ware with textile-inspired designs was Nabeshima ware, which started ca 1700.

    It is best to consider all aspects, which we probably can't, but we can at least give an indication of whether it is worth taking to an expert who can look more closely and feel it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
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  11. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    do you think it is worth taking it to someone to look at? Where - a museum?
     
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  12. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Early days I think, let's see if it there is a possibility it is as old as the mark suggests first.
     
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  13. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    Here are photos of side & foot - and also what looks like a cigarette burn that is in the pottery?
    PS - Sorry for delay guys, I completely forgot about photo request/suggestion until someone asked me about buying it at my estate/yard sale I had yesterday, and for some reason I knew not to sell it until I found out about it - and that made me look here when I remembered I had posted asking about it - and finding this thread!!
    I apologize Amy Jewelry for delay when you're trying to help me
    If you need closer or different angles I will get them (in less than 3 months!); I'm curious to find out what this is!
    AA EBAY NEW A COLLECTIBLE EBAY POTTERY CHINESE PLATTER 1A_B.jpg AA EBAY NEW A COLLECTIBLE EBAY POTTERY CHINESE PLATTER 1A_C.jpg AA EBAY NEW A COLLECTIBLE EBAY POTTERY CHINESE PLATTER 1A_D.jpg
     
  14. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    From the looks of it, someone valued this. Gluing it back together wasn't easy. Whether that was because it was really old or because "it was Grandma's" I haven't a clue.
     
  15. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

  16. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Because she has not posted on this thread. @Asian Fever
     
  17. Asian Fever

    Asian Fever Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I am just back from antique show and got a bunch of sterling silverware which made me late.

    OK, for this piece, the marking looks like "Da Ming Chenghua"(Great Ming Chenghua), however it reads "Tai Ming Chenghua". This piece is definitely not made in Ming Dynasty.
    There's two possiblity:
    First one: This one is made in Early to mid Qing Dynasty in order to memorize the Ming Dynasty. As we know, Qing Dynasty was estiblished by Manju nationality, they put many rules and laws in order to terminate the Han traditional culture and rule the whole nation. They order the whole nation: men have to keep braid; women have to bound feet, etc. Most Ming Dynasty fashions were prohibited. There's one very famous issue happened in the early Qing Dynasty called "Literary Inquisition". (It happened many times but the one happened in Qing Dynasty is most important, you can google or wiki if interested.) In addition, chinese has a tradition, later dynasty likes to produce newer porcelain after previous dynasty style and reign mark. As a result, those who still memorize Ming Dynasty produced this kind of plate bearing "Tai Ming Chenghua".
    Second possiblity: Found some reference which shows the pictures that Japanese also made "Tai Ming Chenghua" porcelain. So this piece is also has a high possibility that it's made in Japan. (Just corrected.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  18. Asian Fever

    Asian Fever Well-Known Member

    Information corrected
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  19. Asian Fever

    Asian Fever Well-Known Member

  20. Asian Fever

    Asian Fever Well-Known Member

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