Are these busts the same?

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by Gatoblanconz, May 6, 2020.

  1. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    Edit: Pictures attached in posts below.

    https://www.seidenbergantiques.com/large-english-parian-bust-of-tom-moore-circa-1880.html

    I just bought a bust i believe to be the same as in the link above undamaged except for missing the plinth/pedestal. At the bottom of mine you can see where the plinth was attached you can see the circle and a little rough knob of porcelain, presumably the remains of the plinth.

    Here is mine without the plinth http://imgur.com/gallery/q7HpU8C
    http://imgur.com/gallery/ViPlCnn
    http://imgur.com/gallery/yJNaWeI
    http://imgur.com/gallery/P1ef4rN

    My girlfriend says they are different. She thinks different head shape. However every single curl of hair and wrinkle in the shirt seems to be exactly the same Can you spot evidence for a definite mismatch?

    Also any information about mine would be really helpful. Happy to post more pictures.

    Pictures attached in posts below.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    hopefully , in the fullness of time, you can post photo's here, so that we can better help you !! :happy::happy:
     
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  3. wiscbirddog

    wiscbirddog Well-Known Member

    I agree with your girlfriend - not the same.

    You'll get more responses if you actually post the pictures on this thread. Most people aren't going to open links posted by a new member. Sorry, just the way we are getting too suspicious of cyber-viruses.
     
  4. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    How about this IMG_20200507_123032_compress73.jpg Screenshot_2020-05-05-11-16-47-873_com.android.chrome.png
     
    Any Jewelry and komokwa like this.
  5. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    I have uploaded the photos. What can you tell me about this piece if it's not the same as the one for sale. Thanks
     
  6. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    I played with the lighting so yours isn't so stark.
    I think the difference we are seeing might be attributed to lighting and angle of the picture. Also different camera lens can distort.
    The museum would have used a high quality camera and good lighting.
    The only thing that I see that is different are the eyes, which might be attributed to the angle you took your picture at.

    I can see the same shape of curls, the furrow in the forehead, the eyebrow on the right has a slight arch, the lines under the eyes, cleft in the chin, folds in the clothing all appear to match.

    The face on yours is a little narrower, which could be caused by the lens aperture of the camera in your phone.
    The iris of the eyes are at a different angle. Which may be lighting and the angle at which you took the picture.

    I'd say yes they are the same.

    Any marks at all on the back or base of yours?


    upload_2020-5-6_22-9-2.png upload_2020-5-6_22-9-36.png
     
  7. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your help. Yes I cannot find any difference in the detail at all except for a very very small chip in the bottom of the right shirt collar (near the tip).
    Here is the back. the picture I posted of it is from an advertisement and they do not have a photo of the back but they say that it says Tom Moore on the back. The link to their advertisement is in my first post. They are selling theirs for 7500 US dollars in an upmarket antique shop in Manhattan.
    The only other information I can find is that Robinson and leadbeater made a bust of Thomas More and that features in page 230 plate 752a of a book by prof Tom Mole called 'What do Victorians made of romanticism'. But I do not have a copy of that book to have a look at the picture. It might be different. I have emailed Professor Mole. I also emailed the Manhattan antique store to ask for more photographs of theirs.
    IMG_20200506_191949.jpg IMG_20200505_092756.jpg
     
  8. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

  9. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    What are people's views about whether the one for sale in Manhattan is actually worth 7 1/2 thousand dollars? and how much less is mine worth missing a socle?
    Thanks
     
  10. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Both are same guy; neither is Thomas More. Surprised Seidenberg does not attribute a maker.
     
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  11. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    Mine says Tom Moore on the back and so does theirs. Please refer photo above. although I haven't seen the back of theirs.
    from what I can find from googling some of these various parian busts don't have a maker mark but are attributed to Copeland at least the Copeland busts (but different people) seemed to have the same socle.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  12. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    upload_2020-5-7_3-32-27.jpeg upload_2020-5-7_3-33-3.png

    same wardrobe ....
     
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  13. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    I think that's possibly the image this came from look at the hair. And if you look at the photo of my one, which photigraphs as having a narrower face, it looks more like this painting.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  14. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    It's not this Thomas More, author of Utopia:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    Not the same !! ... Joy.
     
  16. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    which parts are different I can't find any detail on one that's not on the other. They do seem to be different material though
     
  17. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    Shape of the face different... Inner shirt front very different, one is very wrinkly, yours is smooth ... Faces are different regarding wrinkles, and bags under the eyes ... The jacket front on yours is much smoother than the other one ... The mouths are different, one is more turned down than the other ... The eyebrows on the "sold" bust have a lot more 'expression' in them ... Joy.
     
  18. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    Mine has all of those features I just can't get them to come out easily in a photograph have a look at this for example. There's the wrinkles on the neck tie and the bags under the eyes IMG_20200507_184349.jpg IMG_20200507_180253.jpg
     
  19. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    I think they could be the same but from this angle your does look narrower to me. I agree about the angle, yours seems to have harsher lighting and seems to be looking up at the bust a bit, the other is from more straight on or slightly down. If from the same angle it might be clearer.


    upload_2020-5-7_8-19-7.png upload_2020-5-7_8-27-25.png
     
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  20. Gatoblanconz

    Gatoblanconz Well-Known Member

    I cannot seem to replicate the angle. I also cannot take a photo with my phone that makes the face appear as plump as theirs.
    However I cannot find any feature or detail in their one that isnt also in my one.
     
    kyratango likes this.
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