ARNOLD BIRCKMAN1562 engraved plate used for printing

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by Marius halus, Dec 12, 2015.

?

Have any value?

  1. More than 1000£

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. Less than 1000£

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Marius halus

    Marius halus New Member

    Hi.I found this old plate.I think is LEAD and wood is oak..is engraved the name ARNOLD BIRCKMAN and the year 1562..what you think? Have any value?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. jackolin

    jackolin Well-Known Member

    Printers stamp.
     
  3. Marius halus

    Marius halus New Member

    Yes made my hand in 1562 by Arnold BIRCKMAN
     
  4. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    shouldn't the writing be backwards.....
     
    yourturntoloveit likes this.
  5. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    I thought the same thing, komo, but it appears that Marius "flipped" image so it would be readable before posting it here. Did you notice that the info in the "header" above the image was backwards? I did.
     
    komokwa likes this.
  6. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Ohhhhh, you're right......I see it now......

    You're a better man that I ........my dear !!!! :happy::happy:
     
    Bakersgma likes this.
  7. Marius halus

    Marius halus New Member

    Yes I flipped the image to be easy to read..what you think have any value??
     
  8. afantiques

    afantiques Well-Known Member

    I am very dubious about dates on stuff. How big is it? Picture of the back?

    If it is around 3 by 5 inches I think it might be for printing bookplates for Arnold, and date from the 19th C.
     
    komokwa likes this.
  9. Marius halus

    Marius halus New Member

    Is same image like this, the year is writed on bottom M.D.LXII (1562)
     

    Attached Files:

  10. afantiques

    afantiques Well-Known Member

    Why is that one in English?
     
  11. Ladybranch

    Ladybranch Well-Known Member

    I found several botany books on the web by Birckman that no doubt you found also. Soooo all of the following is probably no news to you; however, if not news.... Following is a link to Bernard Quaritch ... Catalogue, Issues 173-180, 1897. It has a few listings on pages 44 and 45 to what this plate (or an original plate) may have been printed on. There is one that may answer af's question for why in English. It is the first **English translation** of Birckman and Collen of Turner's Herbal. The translation was by Jonathan Hollybush and "imprinted by Collen by Arnold Birckman."

    "681 Turner's Herbal First Edition
    ...
    ...
    ...
    A most excellant & perfecte Homish Apothecarye ... Translated ... by Jhon Hollybush. Imprinted by Collen by Arnold Birckman M.D.LXI."

    p. 44, scroll down to "681 Turner's Herbal First Edition," 4th paragrah:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=rKhFAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA3-PA45&lpg=RA3-PA45&dq=ARNOLD+BIRCKMAN+book+plate&source=bl&ots=b6uUQ7n7nu&sig=wWoeN5UFdIT25QNhagM17zyq2a0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwifr--Z9NjJAhWKOiYKHZKwD_IQ6AEIKzAC#v=onepage&q=ARNOLD BIRCKMAN &f=false

    I just reread your original posting and looked at the pics. I now see that plate says MDLXII for 1562 rather than MDLXI. Oh, well, am leaving the above pp. 44 and 45 of this catalog have other listings for "Imprinted by Collen by Arnold Birckman" for the years 1561 and 1562, MDLXI and MDLXII.

    I want to emphasis that I do not know whether your plate is original or not.

    --- Susan

    Edit: here is another mention of Bernard Quaritch ... Catalogue, Issues 146-150, listing of Turner's Herbal, 1st edition, with by Collen by Arnold Birckman.

    Page 12 but starts on p. 11 with #174 Turner. This is under the Botany section:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=ZYoDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=ARNOLD+BIRCKMAN+book+plate&source=bl&ots=Z2-i4UEvoq&sig=HW2npKFxtQYnybdG0VwKtKJz6tU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwifr--Z9NjJAhWKOiYKHZKwD_IQ6AEILjAD#v=onepage&q=ARNOLD BIRCKMAN book plate&f=false
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  12. Marius halus

    Marius halus New Member

    I think this is from second edition because the title of book is different (check picture)
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Marius halus

    Marius halus New Member

    If is ORIGINAL and is from 1562 have any value?? Where I can autentifcate in London??
     
  14. Marius halus

    Marius halus New Member

    I know the books is rare and cost few thousand..
     
  15. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    I'm under the impression that the one-piece lead-on-hardwood plate for printing such as the one shown is part of a 19th/20th C. Printing process. But I know a printer and will ask.
     
  16. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    My printer friend had some suggestions although he didn't know a lot about the details you probably want.

    "...So I cannot authoritatively comment on the construction of this plate, nor on whether it’s style or subject matter date from the 16th C. As you know there was a great antiquities revival in the early 19th C. and numerous items from two or three centuries before were replicated, to a degree. I think Marius will have to bite the bullet and visit someone knowledgeable about early printing technology, and artistic style(s) being used, perhaps of bookplates particularly, to find out what he really has. I’ve always thought most illustrations before about 1800 were engraved; that block printing was used as a cheap alternative in some cases for small uses. And bookplates could have been one of the uses for block printing. Although I’ve noted I am no source to quote, I thought metallic plates didn’t come into being until the 19th C. Cutting one even in lead would have been a daunting project. And acid etching one in lead not a skill yet, if ever, mastered. Marius seems to be most interested in what the plate’s value might be, and trying to gain some idea via the Internet. But I think he will have to spend some money and travel a bit to get an opinion first hand...."
     
  17. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

  18. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    Think you are right, and the stuff that looks like lead is really stereo metal, much harder than pure lead. Even though the process is hundreds of years old, since it is still in use, the history of the process doesn't help much to date that particular plate. I think the best way would be to take a good look at the wood block and guess its age, since as far as I know the plate was attached to the block and when it wore out or that printing job was done, the block and plate were discarded together, or maybe the metal would be recycled. I'd look for a 19th or 20th C. edition of a book which contained that excerpt-if you type part of it into search on Google Books, you might find the book. My personal opinion is that the plate is 20th C.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page