Bead work overload

OK, I do not collect women's clothing, and don't want to start. I need something new to collect like I need a hole in the head. My wife and daughters wouldn't want it, so I mostly just ignore it. But sometimes I see things headed for a dumpster, though, and I just can't let it happen. So having never paid attention to beadwork before, here I am posting two dresses with what looks to me to be pretty amazing hand beadwork. But please correct me if I am wrong.

Neither dress has any labels. Done on sewing machines, but with added snaps. I don't even recognize the material, but very very fine, is it silk? The beadwork looks hand-done to me, but is it - and if so where and when? Europe, native america, china, ??? I can take more pics if I'm not showing the right parts. The red dress has a beaded jacket with shoulder pads that goes over a full length dress. The black dress is also a full length dress, beaded at top all the way around neckline and down front, and all around the bottom, with what looks like gold thread.

Condition of both is pretty great it seems to me. But was whoever put this in the junk pile right? Does this deserve to go in a dumpster? Or maybe it should at least go to a thrift store? Or if there is a demand for things like this, then what is it called?

 

Hate to be a bore but... Clothing is usually dated by the silhouette. Could/would you photograph them both hanging? No zippers? Linings? The red looks like a manmade fiber and the black a gauze. Newer rather than older to my eye but I'd like to see additional photographs.

Debra

 

Definitely NOT trash-worthy. I don't think either is really ancient, but I think the red one is early 60s or back into the 50s. The seams on the dress are pinked rather than serged, and the changeover happened about 1963. Not sure about the black one.

 

Can we see any closures, ie: zippers, buttons, hooks/eyes?
I think I see a nylon zip on the red one.
I'm thinking newer... and possibly from India...

 

My wife has a mannequin I can put them on tomorrow, I'll take more pics. Glad you didn't ask me to try them on. Is there a non-destructive test to figure out whether man-made or natural fiber?

p.s. There is a Talon metal zipper on the red dress, but no zippers on the jacket or other dress - what looks like a zipper may be some of the beading. I'll get pics tomorrow.

 

I think I see now... what looks like nylon zipper teeth in your third photo is actually the beaded edge of the jacket?
Looking forward to photos of the Talon zipper.

 

Well that took longer than I expected. The mannequin didn't work for either dress because neither one would go over the shoulders, so I hung them on a hanger instead. When I unzipped the zipper on the red dress (zipper on one side, not the back), I found a tag as shown. Zipper is definitely aluminum type metal, but painted red. Looked again, black dress still no tag or zipper, just snaps. I'll start with the red dress pics.

 

1930s perhaps into the 1940s. The jacket is a bolero. Here's something similar from 1938 with embroidery.

Debora

 

Last two pics of the red jacket, then the black dress.

Black dress had to pin one of the shoulder straps which was no longer attached to dress; tried to do it symmetrically. Too bad it wouldn't go on the mannequin, since it seems to lose shape and hang much more than the other due to all the beading on the dress. The inner dress is a satin like material, with an outer gauzy material that is incredibly fine, you can see my hand through the arm, though it is holding the weight of all the beading. Belt on the back attaches with metal snaps on both sides on the front.

 

Carriage trade NYC store.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Pinna

Debora

 

The black dress appears to be earlier. I'm not familiar with that silhouette. Would the "shoulder straps" be visible when worn? Or do you think they're hanger straps?

Debora

 

I'd think the black dress rather avant garde. Natural waist but low ruffle an unusual combination. Pre-1920s I'd think. The 1920s waist was dropped.

Debora

 

Given condition and elaborate beading, I'd think both of interest to collectors. And I'd think beading European.

Debora

 

If I had to guess, I'd think the black dress was from the immediate pre- or post-World War I era. The thin natural waist, the long sleeves, the idea of an overskirt. Is there a drawstring to tighten the skirt above the ruffle?

Debora

 

My daughter would wear the blue bird one in a heart beat.

 

Bet it's very attractive on. Although probably tiny, tiny.

Debora

 

Hey Jeff, Here’s a fiber burn chart with instructions if you want to figure out fabric content (it’s not as scary as it may seem, lol).

They recommend using a 1” piece but you don’t need quite so much. Check the seams for a little extra fabric you can snip (& of course check back here if you’re unsure).

https://www.fabricmartfabrics.com/Burn-Test-Chart.html

 

According to the internet, the company name changed to Talon in 1937 so that's your earliest date for the red dress.

Debora

 

Must have been known for their beading.

https://www.1stdibs.com/fashion/clo...VxntvBB18tgseEAQYAiABEgJcIPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Debora