Featured brass tray, how old and where from?

dear all

diameter is 22". i think it is chinese but i am not sure. not sure who it originally belonged to so uncertain about age. how old do you think it is?
the bleached spot was from a mouldy mandarin orange.
we use it every year for CNY

regards
phaik hooi

 

With or without mouldy mandarins?
Kidding aside, it is lovely.
The geometrical decoration and the small 'Islamic' rim look Sumatran, the cranes and phoenix Chinese. Are you sure it is not a very constrained Peranakan tray?
Or Malay/Indonesian made for the Peranakan market?
Could it have been a tray for a tempat sirih/betel set?

These are sirih/betel trays from Java:

 

i suppose it could be classified as peranakan but i am uncertain. it was originally used as the food tray. during dinner, the dishes would be placed on the tray and laid on the table as is. just nipped downstairs to ask auntie and she seemed quite certain it belonged to my great grandma

 

@Shangas perhaps you can confirm peranakan?

 

I'm not sure either. It doesn't have the usual Peranakan abundance of designs, but then again the cranes are not very Malay/Indonesian.
Phoenix are used in Indonesia as well. Maybe it is an Indonesian sirih tray turned food tray?
Say hello to your auntie from me.

 

This is also Peranakan, not only listed as such, but definitely a mix of Indonesian and Chinese styles:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18-19th-c-Chinese-Perenakan-Straits-Bronze-Incense-Burner-Qing-Period-South-Asia/142411749530?_trkparms=aid=555017&algo=PL.CASSINI&ao=1&asc=41376&meid=c2272b74dc31484d8980af54faa39385&pid=100507&rk=1&rkt=1&&_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226

 

the flowers look like peonies or cherry blossoms? makes it overall very chinese, no?

 

There are peonies, cherry, and lotus blossoms. The medallions, including those with the cranes, look Chinese, the rest looks Indonesian (Malay?).
If you were to put your tray on top of the 'incense burner' from the ebay listing, add a few small brass pots and boxes, you would end up with an Indonesian style sirih/betel set (they don't always have the handle in the middle):

 

The tray is extremely interesting, but for my money, I wouldn't call it Peranakan.

Peranakan metalware has a very distinct look to it. It will generally be HIGHLY decorated. Embossed, engraved, with Chinese motifs. Birds, flowers, etc. Peonies, cranes, and so on.

Also, in Peranakan society, only WOMEN chewed betel nuts. Men either smoked tobacco, or opium. Therefore any tray with traditionally 'male' motifs (eg: dragons), wouldn't be (or would be very unlikely) to be Peranakan.

That doesn't mean it couldn't be for betel nuts - loads of countries chewed betel nuts in those days (and still do). That said, 22in. sounds HUGE for a betel nut tray, unless it's for one designed for use by multiple users.

I don't think it's Peranakan. For one thing: the peranakan were not famous for being 'constrained'. All you have to DO is look at the stuff they produced, or owned, and you'll see an immediate difference.

 

Here's a good example of what I mean.

Look at the tray at the top of this posting.

Then look at this:



This is TYPICAL Peranakanware. I've seen loads of examples of these in Peranakan museums and in books on the Peranakan. Look at the DETAIL. Look at the embossing, the raised decorations, look at the flowers, the birds, the natural motifs. Look at how this extends towards the middle of the tray, underneath the various accessories. The bowls, the slicers, the lime boxes, etc.

You don't see that on the tray above. It's just not as detailed. And the Peranakan were not famous for being interested in plain, unembellished items.

That for me, is what marks it out as not being Peranakan. It might still be a betel-nut tray, but I doubt that a Peranakan household ever owned it.

 

literally poor peranakan. many families became quite poor and lost most of their heritage wares during the war, family feuds, etc. but the culture and habits remain my feeling is that what we see as typical peranakan (books and museums) remains as examples of the ultra-rich elite straits chinese peranakan of that period. poor peranakan make do with whatever they can afford to maintain their cultural identity.

i am quite certain now that it is just a food tray, not a betel-nut tray. could well be locally made, so very mixed design/pattern but still with a peranakan flavour

my tray trying to justify being peranakan

 

Well my grandmother and her family were full-blooded Peranakan coming out the wazoo, so that means I'm Peranakan too BOO YAHZ!!

*fist-bump*

 

Agree, I think that is largely the case.

Where are the dragons? I see several phoenix, a very feminine motif.

Well, there is certainly Chinese influence, and if one of the ancestors of the tray is Peranakan....
It says in the description that you are still considered Peranakan if you have some Peranakan ancestry. Would that still apply if the ancestry goes back centuries? I have some Peranakan ancestry, but very tiny 'some'. Mind you, like Bob Dylan says in 'Farewell Angelina', call me any name you like, I will never deny it.

 

you peranakan too!!

 

Good on you for teaching me a word and culture I have never heard of, until today! *fist-bump* back at ya! You too Any Jewelry!

 

Sadly that is the legacy of the Peranakan. Most people have never heard of them.

You hear of things like the Roma, or gypsies. Or Jewish culture before the war, or say, the French protestant Hugenots, or stuff like that. But most people have never ever heard of the Peranakan. Which I think is extremely sad, considering how fascinating their culture and ways of life were. I only found out about my family connection after my grandmother died.

 

That is sad, but at least you're catching up through your research. What is the rest of your ancestry, Malay?

The Netherlands has many people who are either Peranakan or Dutch-Indonesian with some Peranakan mixed in. It is something that is generally accepted and acknowledged.
Dutch-Indonesians, including Peranakan, are the largest minority, an estimated 10%, but that is only counting the first and second generation to come out of Indonesia after WWII. They have been settling here ever since the 17th century.

 

On my mother's side, it's pure Chinese-Chinese.

On my dad's side, it's half-Chinese, Half-Peranakan.