Featured Carved Dark Green Jadeite Cup; What Say Y'all?

Discussion in 'Jewelry' started by wlwhittier, Dec 4, 2022.

  1. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    ~260 gram, ~70mm od, ~61mm id, ~70mm height.
    The bottom is dead-flat, and I can find no marks.
    The 2nd and last image are LED backlit, the 3rd is flash-lit.

    The inclusions in it all appear to be semi-chrystaline, particularly at their edges. The surface easily resists a good steel point. I don't think it has any age to it, but wdik.
    Your comments are appreciated...an' Thanks for lookin'!


    9BECB1E8-CE81-4162-B9A9-09A1EF2C2F5F_1_201_a.jpeg 4B313A03-A775-4E37-ADE4-65B926129B69_1_201_a.jpeg 66BBC880-93DA-4BCB-B960-D49B28CD5BD4_1_201_a.jpeg 48169CF6-91DB-4563-BB4C-0478C509E82A_1_201_a.jpeg C6C2D74B-0C76-49C0-B48C-4FDABF41E8C3_1_201_a.jpeg 62983015-CD2E-4F0B-8826-563BC341B613_1_201_a.jpeg F53AAF7C-27CB-4181-B76F-5779C4180F2F_1_201_a.jpeg D72BAFB9-EDAA-4ECE-92AE-F00430DAB733_1_201_a.jpeg
     
  2. bosko69

    bosko69 Well-Known Member

    Whit-You're getting some nice nephrite & jadeite.This looks like another case for detectives over at the Asian Antiques Forum.It doesn't look like a normal Asian (Japanese,Chinese) Motif to me,but could be somewhere SE Asia.We've got way more astute eyes than mine on the board though.
    It's beautiful illuminated.
     
    pearlsnblume and wlwhittier like this.
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    What makes you think it is jadeite jade?
    With those lotus and scrolling vine motifs it looks inspired by Mughal jades, but it is not as refined. Mughal jades are nephrite jade.
    The prefered Mughal jade colours were white, mutton fat and pale celadon, but dark green nephrite jade was used occasionally. I don't think I've ever seen mottled dark green.

    I don't know if your cup is Mughal period, the surface looks rather rough and the carving is not as fine as the usual Mughal carving. It could be a later copy of a Mughal jade, and made in India or Pakistan.
    Most Mughal jade cups have flared sides, but this could be an exception.;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
  4. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    It's beautiful, but I'm not sure it is jadeite or nephrite.
    Serpentine?
     
  5. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It looks like serpentine to me, which would also account for the lack of finesse in the carved motifs, compared to Mughal or Mughal style jades.
    I believe serpentine jade can't be cut with a knife either, but I'm not sure. Maybe it is nephrite, and just not carved as expertly as most pieces.
     
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  6. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    Pure blind ignorance, AJ. It's green, thats all I'm hangin' my hat on.

    I don't know anything about 'serpentine' jade, either...that's a new term for me. I'll do a search for it, including its Mohs hardness...and also for Mughal, a term I've seen but am also clueless about. Thanks!

    One of the puzzles for me about this (or any other) carved hollow jade or stone vessel is how the core was removed. Almost certainly that missing volume was wasted...I cannot imagine how it could have been salvaged for other use.

    Also, I don't use a knife for the scratch attempt; my tool of choice is a machinist's awl (or scribe), put to the surface in as hidden a spot as the item allows...and with considerable shoulder applied to that tiny sharp point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
  7. Marie Forjan

    Marie Forjan Well-Known Member

    The most reliable way to test is find someone with a gem tester :)
     
  8. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

    They use a core drill and then other tools to cut the bottom of the core.
     
    wlwhittier likes this.
  9. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    Yep...I understand that part. BUT: They drill THRU the bottom, to free the core...the core is the desired product, not the remnant shell.

    In the case of my cup, or other similar vessels, there isn't any way to release that core from the floor of the vessel. Or at least I haven't figured out how it's done...IF preserving the bulk of the core material is a desired outcome.
     
  10. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    I know they exist...but thought they were mostly used for Semi- and Precious gemstones. My sense is that they measure heat-conductivity. Would that be useful in differentiating between jadeite, nephrite and serpentine jade?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
  11. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    I think it may be Bowenite:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowenite

    ...with the exception that Bowenite (a form of serpentine) has a Mohs hardness of ~3.5-4.0, and this cup seems to be quite a bit harder than that.

    The deeper I go, the greater my confusion!
     
    stracci likes this.
  12. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

    The core drill is just the first step,they don't drill through the bottom of the piece.Next they drill a hole down the center,then a shaft with cutting disc cut the core and release the core from the bottom of the glass without damage the inside walls.At one time there were a videos of the whole process,but I don't see any now.
     
    wlwhittier likes this.
  13. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

  14. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

    wlwhittier likes this.
  15. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    I've got one of those...somewhere around here...if I find it, I'll post it.
     
  16. bosko69

    bosko69 Well-Known Member

    Whit-You gave it your best shot,and the best part-it (the magical 'It'),is still out there waiting !
     
    wlwhittier and IvaPan like this.
  17. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Serpentine jade can have a Mohs hardness of 5.5, so closer to jade. It can also be mottled dark green and lighter green:
    serpentine_jade_large_chytha.jpg
    Unfortunately.:( But I did try to warn you:;)
     
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  18. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    Hard to tell, but those beads (how big are they...and are they drilled?) don't look translucent.
    And yes, you were quite generous in your warnings, AJ. Hope, however, springs eternal! Thanks for all your learned input, though...!
     
    komokwa and Any Jewelry like this.
  19. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Simply tumbled stones.
    I was overdoing it, wasn't I.:hilarious:
     
    komokwa and wlwhittier like this.
  20. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    Truth to tell...I've managed to score some very nice finds while rooting around in the acres of mud that constitute the local garage/yard-sale landscape. That's what kept me at it for the better part of 4 decades; that now an' again pearl coruscating among the pig-turds.
     
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