Featured Carved Orca

Discussion in 'Tribal Art' started by Jeff Drum, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    I live in the Northeast US, so I very rarely find a First Nations (I assume) piece. Probably isn't much, but I ran across this one, and since there are so many knowledgeable people here, I thought I would see if anyone can add any info. @komokwa and others?

    P6121090.JPG P6121093.JPG P6121094.JPG
     
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  2. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

  3. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

  4. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    tourist carving
    nice enough...deep lines....classic diving design....
    recent......$49.95 retail.....more or less......
     
  5. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    2.99 at thrift so no worries. There must be a healthy industry selling similar to visiting tourists. Nice to see from cluttered and hunting (wait - how did I miss your name change?) that he has other work out there. Have you run into him before? How recent is recent?
     
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  6. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    The Joe name is well known, & I think I've sold works by the father or uncle....
    In the 80's & 90's signing in pencil ..or carving a siggy was more prevalent ...
    I'd say it was made in the last 15 years....likely the last 10 by someone who texts more than he writes....
    COOST.....VICTORA.......guy can't spell !
     
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  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Dyslectic. Or dislektyk, of koarse.
     
  8. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    I'd agree; made within the last 10 years; could have been yesterday for that matter. There is indeed a healthy tourist industry in B.C. especially in Victoria and Vancouver, and you'll see "flats" like these in big Native outlets, and also in lots of small shops, pawn shops, souvenir outlets, and such.
    Many are made by Coast Salish tribal members living in the area; many of these prefer to use more specific "tribal" names rather than the generic "Coast Salish."
    Musqueam and Squamish are two that are often seen.
    The flats are often made from soft pine, stained in a darker color; pine is not a traditional native wood, but is readily available from retail sources and easy to carve. Better-quality flats might be red or yellow cedar, or alder.
    I'm not entirely sure of the wood on this one; could be alder, but more likely pine. The one in the Etsy listing is pine, I'm pretty sure.
    A lot of the "flat" makers have a pretty high production, sold in those shops, without getting much online recognition. They're not selling in the higher-echelon shops that would be posting online bios, for example.
    It would not be uncommon to walk into one of the more touristy outlets to find several hundred small masks and flats on the wall; 10 by one artist, 10 by another, and so on, with prices from $25 to $200; with none of the names being particularly recognizable, except that they belong to families that one might have heard of.

    By contrast, a higher-end gallery might have several dozen sculptures of various sorts; all by names with major online presence; and priced from $5000 on up.....like a $25,000 Robert Davidson in one corner, a $20,000 Susan Point wall panel hanging behind it.
    I've yet to see one of those in a thrift shop, but hope springs eternal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
    komokwa and Any Jewelry like this.
  9. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    I want to find one of these in a thrift shop....Davidson, Point....Singletary

    point.jpg

    Davidson.jpg

    double_tri_neg.jpg

    Singletarycresthat.jpg
     
  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    You never know....
    Those are beautiful, Steve. I went to some of the top galleries in Vancouver when I was there, amazing. Not only the beauty and perfect use of the grain in the wood, but you could feel the energy of some of the masks, even from some distance (I didn't touch them).
     
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  11. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    It would have a hard time getting to the Northeast...if it was made yesterday !!
    :happy::happy::happy::happy:

    ( sidebar..)
    u get mail from me Steve..?
     
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  12. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    True. My email is currently not opening properly at this desk...I'm sure it will come back shortly.
    :arghh:
     
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  13. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    FWIW this is made of red cedar. And certainly not old but not recently cut since it has patina you don’t get with fresh wood. Just sayin. ;)
     
  14. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    The Red Cedar Gallery.....1990- 2002

    redcedargallery.JPG

    The walls were covered in 1st growth grade A B.C. Thuja plicata, commonly called western or Pacific red cedar .

    Just sayin.............

    Oh, & if I don't know something about Northwest Coast Indian Art......
    @all_fakes , does.

    again......just sayin....
     
  15. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    Which is why I appreciate the input here and will continue to do so. One thing I certainly have no clue about is what artistic roots a craftsman has, and whether they have any kind of reputation, and in this case not, so that is very useful to know. But there are some things that I do know from my many years of dealing with antique, vintage, and new wood, and I can tell this wasn't made "yesterday", and it isn't made of "pine". So those conjectures are not useful ... just sayin... and that was my point.
     
  16. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Well then we agree to disagree.
    I stand by my post, and agree with all_fakes......
    & yes , while not made yesterday.....it's made after 1999...or I'd know of the artist.
     
  17. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    The ability to recognize various woods and patinas when one has an object in hand is very useful, no question about that; and it is certainly a skill that comes with experience.
    Not quite as easy in photos.
    I've spent considerable time in woodshops myself; applied yellow cedar planking to a boat-hull, among other things. One never forgets the smell of fresh yellow cedar; or red for that matter.
    I like wood.
     
  18. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I've bought and sold hundreds of these plaques in 30 years......W.Watts used to make some in red cedar.....but because of the open cell grain & the softness of the wood his carving lines were never crisp.
    Even in the early 90's I talked to the artists and back then they complained that getting good red cedar with no knots was becoming very expensive ...and difficult.
    They all switched to one inch pine boards for their wall plaques.....
    The pine takes the stain well, and if you cut the back you can see that the wood is so much lighter than the front.
     
  19. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    I don’t think we even disagree. Fifteen, twenty, or so years old, authentic Native American piece, but not a well known maker. I just took isswith the “made yesterday” comment.
     
  20. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    I did not mean to cause any issues; intent was to point out that because such items are still being made today, there is no way to date the piece, based on stylistic details. Nothing more was meant.
    (PS, actually "Canadian First Nations" would be more accurate than Native American, for a Coast Salish artist - but Native, in any case.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
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