Featured Chest - William and Mary?

Discussion in 'Furniture' started by mark737, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. mark737

    mark737 Well-Known Member

    I found this chest today at a thrift store in Central Texas. Based on some initial research the style is similar to ones listed as William and Mary by auction houses. I'd be interested in your thoughts on style, period, woods used, hardware, and possible region of production. Let me know if additional photo's would be helpful in providing this info. No markings anywhere that I can find. Thanks. WM1.jpg WM4.jpg WM3.jpg WM5.jpg WM6.jpg
     
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  2. wiscbirddog

    wiscbirddog Well-Known Member

    Would just like to say I find the floral hardware to be very attractive!
     
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  3. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Yes, the style is William & Mary but I don't think period, guesses English, late 19th century or later, walnut veneer with single arch molding, pine secondary wood, the pulls are called "teardrop".
     
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  4. NewEngland

    NewEngland Well-Known Member

    I think it's a beauty! I love the bun feet, the wonderful inlay and the hardware. Great find!
     
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  5. mark737

    mark737 Well-Known Member

    @James Conrad Thank you for sharing your thoughts. What details make you think late 19th and English? I'm still new to pre-20th-century furniture and trying to learn more about dating. I just pulled this nail from one of the drawer bottoms. I read online that pre-1800 nails have square shanks and nails from 1800-1890 have rectangular shanks, but I imagine it's not that simple. nail.jpg
     
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  6. Ce BCA

    Ce BCA Well-Known Member

    I'm not an expert, but to me the carcass doesn't look right for period, and the 'patina' looks forced. Look at all the tiny indents, a lot of them are very similar in depth and shape which is odd, and the kind of thing you can get from 'chaining' a piece (hitting it with a chain to simulate wear). The problem with hardware and nails is that they can be recovered from old pieces and re-used. I have a feeling this piece may be a deliberate forgery :(
     
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  7. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Well, the pine secondary looks very fresh, no oxidation at all, there are no dust boards either. Cut nails are a 19th-century product, if the chest were period they would be hand-forged on an anvil. Why english? the veneer banding, and very small dovetails on the drawer are typical of English joinery.
    There is much we can't see, like the back, locks, how the pulls are attached, how the feet are attached, the bottom of drawers, etc so really just guessing as photos alone are very limiting when it comes to furniture.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  8. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Or a nicely crafted reproduction of a W&M chest, not uncommon here in the states to "age" repro's.

    Yeah, I noticed that and in the 2nd photo down from the top, that thumb molded edge is very crisp, something you would not expect to see in a 1690 ish piece.
     
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  9. KSW

    KSW Well-Known Member

    I know nothing (less than) about old furniture but before I scrolled down my first impression was ‘how did a beautiful piece of furniture become that damaged, it’s not a work bench, it looks too contrived’
    so really interesting to see what others have said.
    Whatever it is I’d be delighted to have it standing in my house.
    Looks like the drawer fronts are indented too. It would be interesting to see if there are any ‘age’ marks under the drawer handle plates as that would indicate the dents being applied before the handles were fixed in place.
     
  10. laura9797

    laura9797 Well-Known Member

    Ahhhhhh those English cabinetmakers love to do this! I have had many clients tell me that they purchased an 18th century chest only to see new backs boards with zero oxidation and applied drawer faces. Case pieces can be really well made and composed of older chests but typically made to deceive.
     
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  11. mark737

    mark737 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for the replies. Looking at the piece with a more educated eye, I agree it doesn't appear to be very old, and that the distressing looks intentional. Here are pictures of the details James mentioned. WM7.jpg WM8.jpg WM9.jpg WM10.jpg WM11.jpg
     
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  12. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    That's very deliberate distressing and in all the wrong places, too.
     
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  13. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Still, an attractive chest of drawers even if not period, notices the teardrop pulls are attached with nuts & bolts which they wouldn't be if period.
    They have been making copies of this form since the days of William & Mary and, they are still making them today.
    I don't think "fake" or trying to deceive, more likely a "distressed" reproduction, no serious collector would be fooled plus, it wouldn't be for sale in a thrift.
     
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  14. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Here is a period chest from Jack Plane's blog, an authority on early English furniture who is retired now & makes reproductions that are period correct, construction-wise.
    .
    William and Mary walnut veneered chest of drawers, circa 1695
    william__mary_walnut_cod_c1695_02a.jpg

    Here is a link to his blog where he made a copy of the above chest so you can see how it was constructed back in the day.
    https://pegsandtails.wordpress.com/2010/09/30/a-william-and-mary-walnut-chest-of-drawers-part-one/

    Parts Two - Five
    https://pegsandtails.wordpress.com/2010/10/

    Parts Six - Eight
    https://pegsandtails.wordpress.com/2010/11/
     
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  15. KSW

    KSW Well-Known Member

  16. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    I don't know, probably.
    The bottoms of the feet have "modern" lathe tool marks and the backboards have circular saw tool marks as well.
    How much is the thrift asking? Could still be a good deal if the price is right & the drawers work well. :happy:
     
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  17. mark737

    mark737 Well-Known Member

    James, thanks for the link. What a great site. Do the additional pictures reinforce your opinion of age and origin?
    KSW, I only removed the one pull so far and there did not appear to be any distressing under it.
     
  18. mark737

    mark737 Well-Known Member

    And the price was less than an IKEA Malm chest, so an easy decision regardless of age.
     
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  19. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Reinforce.
    It's a "modern" reproduction of an English 1690 ish chest (late 17th century), still, it could easily be antique or nearly so.
    According to Jack, those "Bun" feet went out of style in England at the turn of the 18th century and were replaced by "Bracket" feet & by 1710-15 bun feet were no more fashion-wise in england.

    Well hey, it's a winner then! and I have no clue what a Malm chest is or the price either!
    The carcass is solid pine! which ain't cheap these days, never mind the veneer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  20. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Here is a period American W&M chest of drawers that I own, about 20 or so of these chests still exist.
    Riven oak with pine drawer fronts/secondary, originally painted but the paint is long gone somewhere along the way.

    Boston 1690-1710

    bird chest.jpg
     
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