Chinese Bowl

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by kardinalisimo, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    1F5EB4DF-C68B-4212-B801-CC01AF2AC060.jpeg 6033C271-83F3-4D9F-8670-20FC2558F27B.jpeg 3F071ED6-C02C-4C01-A03F-A6577036699F.jpeg 6122191E-81A7-4B9B-A3BC-05399F51DA26.jpeg 814E6EDC-BF0E-4472-8E3D-8495E8497C60.jpeg 5103B55E-5DEC-4FBE-9EB3-B7E1AAA8D15C.jpeg 0A761F08-ABF3-4F7B-A4C3-7CF92622C438.jpeg I’m having hard time figuring out what is this bowl made of. It frees like some type of relatively soft stone and stencil like decoration. Not sure if it was carved out or applied or maybe molded powder stone?
    Any thoughts?
     
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  2. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    Some kind of wax resist process... Nice :)

    The roughness of it suggests newer, plus no wear on base?
     
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  3. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    What do you think that wax resist process would involve?
     
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  4. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    Drawing the design with something like an icing bag, and painting the rest - the wax burns off in firing.
     
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  5. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    The resist/wax has to be runny enough to draw with, but thick enough not to run :)

    Piping bag, is what I meant.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    I’m just not sure if the decoration was drawn and what’s the material. Definitely not paint. And why draw with resist wax?
     
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  7. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    How else would they apply a design over the entire surface like that?

    Or if it is new there may be some photographic/digital/transfer metbod, which I don't know about.
     
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  8. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    The wax resists the glaze applied to the rest of the vessel - the wax just burns off, leaving the surface clean. It does look like alabaster or soft stone.

    There may be some other material used, but wax is all I know. Same mechanical process as etching on metals.

    This can be done in layers, as well.
     
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  9. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    So, it was possibly fired?
    I’m thinking that the brown(which is actually white) was somehow eaten away and then stained/dyed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    judy likes this.
  10. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    This tjanting tool is what's used on batik textiles, it is metal to hold wax, so my idea for piping with a bag won't work with wax, but another material was applied for the same purpose.

    When immersed in hot dye bath, the wax melts.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    judy likes this.
  11. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    Since it looks like stone, not fired, but probably dipped in water hot enough to melt wax off. It could be etched, then color applied, I can't say without feeling the surface.

    There are many combinations of adding and subtracting the effects, and different materials and tools.

    Edit: I can see the etching or eating back of the brown areas.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  12. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    We used to label our drafting tools by applying scotch tape, which we hand-cut our initials into; then etched the exposed metal or plastic with a photographic solution we used to "erase" mistakes on prints.

    Kind of unlimited to material, method and etching materials.
     
  13. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    The main idea is to create a protective barrier on the object - metal/textile/ceramic/marble - for a separate process, then completely remove or neutralize the barrier in some way.
     
  14. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

  15. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    That's a much better explanation! But we worked our way out backwards from the materials.

    That celadon vase used 2 stages of build over resist.
     
  16. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the info.
    Here is my theory. The decoration was drawn with wax resist, likely not all manually but by the means of stencil, and then the untreated area was etched ( with acid or other way) and then the bowl was dyed with the resist still active.
     
  17. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    I wasn't looking at the interior - I can see strips of transfer, but don't see that on the outside... I maybe you can?

    The vessel is pretty translucent and has a kind of flaky waxiness to it. I can't fish up what it might be. It really could be much finer and thinner than I can see in a photo? The wear on the bottom? Extremely light?

    Someone else may be able to help?

    Who should we tag?? :angelic:
     
  18. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    The decoration is done the same way on the exterior and the interior. The bowl is not thin and has normal heaviness.
    I asked on the FB Chinese forum and one member suggested compressed molded stone powder. But nobody else picked up the topic.
    The mark on the bottom is Daoguang. Of course not from the period but I wonder if they randomly put this reign mark or because similar art was done during that period.
     
  19. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

  20. scoutshouse

    scoutshouse Well-Known Member

    Great find!

    Maybe show the FB people? Too bad there's not more detailed information.

    I can only give impressions on what I see, but seems like the Chinese afficiandos could clear it up further - at least whether it's a reproduction, or not... Do you believe it's old?

    @Phaik Hooi
    @gregsglass
    @JayBee
    @komokwa

    In no particular order + sorry if I missed someone - I should take notes on who does what best, but I have to cobble it together, every time
     
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