Featured Chinese wedding cupboard or oak court cupboard?

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by Rebecca Bradford, Apr 28, 2020.

  1. Rebecca Bradford

    Rebecca Bradford New Member

    05A1F433-5D4F-4E3B-9AC2-6C16A680A6BF.jpeg 88B325E3-3B18-4CBC-AFB5-9390D68EB853.jpeg 180793DF-87E0-4D2B-A993-7BBF978D5B80.jpeg A2227979-A08E-435C-8CAA-BF470DC95E31.jpeg EACD9358-F7BC-449E-9414-2C9514D89490.jpeg 05A1F433-5D4F-4E3B-9AC2-6C16A680A6BF.jpeg 88B325E3-3B18-4CBC-AFB5-9390D68EB853.jpeg Hi all,
    Thank you kindly for any help in IDing this piece. It was purchased at a New Orleans auction in 2006. The writeup in the gallery catalogue stated it is a English carved oak wedding cupboard. However, all the searches I do, only reveal Chinese wedding cupboards. Today I stumbled upon oak court cupboards and mine looks like many of those. It was listed as mid-18th century. Thank you so very much for your time and expertise!
     
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  2. flipper

    flipper Striving to face adversity with tact and humor

  3. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

  4. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    It's a Court Cupboard, popular in 17th century England & America. Your cupboard is not period and, I would guess more likely 19th century than 18th because they have 16th and 17th century carvings all in the same piece. Popular thing to do during victorian times, combine 2 or more design elements in the same piece. The central panel has a Tudor Rose carving.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  5. Rebecca Bradford

    Rebecca Bradford New Member

    James, thank you for your insight. It’s odd to me that an gallery/auction could get it so wrong. I mean, it’s their profession.
     
  6. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    Rebecca, I've been burned myself on auctions, so I will tell you what I found out. Auctions will often rely on sellers' information and don't do any due diligence on the item. If they do, then you are often counting on staff of unknown training or experience to do their analysis. @James Conrad is the king of procuring misidentified pieces that are underpriced. Look at some of his threads to see. If you are looking to buy something in the future, please come here and ask first. Kiko
     
  7. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I hear you but, it happens ALL the time. They are generalists, they know a little about a lot of objects but their primary function is selling.
    It's why they have so many disclaimers on their terms of sale which absolves them from any liability.
    And, a New Orleans auction, not exactly a hotbed for early furniture. On the other hand, if the piece had been Victorian, I am betting they would be MUCH closer in description as victorian sells well in that area and they handle a lot of it.
    They simply did not know what it was so, they fudged it!:confused::eek::sorry:
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  8. popsycat

    popsycat Well-Known Member

    Myself, and a lot of dealers I knew, used to rely on serious collectors for information. They always knew more than the so called general "experts" as they generally specialised in one area of collecting and were very knowledgeable in that area.
     
  9. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    EXACTLY, what popsycat said.:singing:
     
  10. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    Ha! If auction houses always got it "right" I would have been out of business decades ago!
     
  11. Darkwing Manor

    Darkwing Manor Well-Known Member

    About that rose.... I noticed it has six petals, so I did some digging. Found this reference to the difference between 5 and 6 petalled roses. https://www.mfordcreech.com/Late_17th_Century_West_Country_Silver_Counter_Box_Servant.html
    "The rose of England is a five-petaled bloom. The white Tudor rose, also of 5 petals, was that of James II, as Duke of York.
    The six-petaled rose later became a well known symbol on glassware of the Jacobite movement (first half of the 18th century).
    The exact reason for addition of the additional 6th petal on glassware is yet unstated."
    Not sure if it is true, what do you think? Could it be a Jacobite piece, or just more Victorian excess?
     
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  12. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Dunno really but, Tudor period was in the 16th century, it was the first period after the medieval period in England and, that form of OP court cupboard is 17th century so..........
     
    komokwa likes this.
  13. Ghopper1924

    Ghopper1924 Well-Known Member

    Most of the pictures are sideways, so I can't discern much. The Victorians loved the 17th century (not sure it loved them back) and they did like to mix n' match. My first guess would be that this is a Victorian revival item, but to tell you the truth it seems much better than most. If I breezed by it at an auction I wold probably believe, at least at first blush, that it was early 18th century.
     
  14. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    I rotated and lightened them a bit if it helps though I'm not sure it does. Hope OP doesn't mind.
    upload_2020-4-28_13-38-42.png


    upload_2020-4-28_13-39-45.png

    upload_2020-4-28_13-39-17.png



    upload_2020-4-28_13-38-8.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  15. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Their profession....is auctioning off things to the highest bidder.....
     
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  16. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it does, notice how "flat" and smooth the wood is plus the carving appears machine carved.
     
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  17. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Absolutely! they leave the details for others to figure out!:p
     
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  18. Rebecca Bradford

    Rebecca Bradford New Member

    Thank you so much for righting them and lightening them. Odd that they posted sideways as they weren’t in my roll and I couldn’t find a tool to right them here after I posted. I didn’t want to adjust them sideways on my photo roll just so they would be centered here
     
  19. Rebecca Bradford

    Rebecca Bradford New Member

    Thank you James for all of your insight. Can I ask how you can tell if the carving is made by a machine? What do you see? If it doesn’t take too long for you to explain.
     
    James Conrad likes this.
  20. Rebecca Bradford

    Rebecca Bradford New Member

    Thank you for your response. A friend gave it to me and she bought it at the auction in New Orleans in 2006.
     
    KikoBlueEyes likes this.
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