Featured Early 18th Century Delaware Valley Walnut Table

Discussion in 'Furniture' started by James Conrad, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    I had always assumed that oak secondary wood on early furniture was NOT American and, generally speaking that is correct. However, as is usual with very old furniture there are ALWAYS exceptions to these rules as new research emerges to challenge the conventional theories.
    It is now known that at least one area in the american colonies did use oak as a secondary wood in furniture building in the years 1700-1740. That area is the Delaware River Valley and includes, Southeastern Pennsylvania, Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD.
    I found this table that is up for sale next week & i think it's american, C. 1710-1730, built somewhere in the valley, probably Philly area. I want this table & i aim to get it!
    old.jpg old2.jpg old2a.jpg old3.jpg old4.jpg old5.jpg old6.jpg old7.jpg old8.jpg old9.jpg
     
  2. gregsglass

    gregsglass Well-Known Member

    Hi,
    Check the top. if it is that older it would not be so round but more of an oval. The boards would have shrunk some. From the photos it likes really evenly round. The problem of not feeling with my hands but looking with my eye.
    greg
     
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  3. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Well, the top is an issue, it may not be original to the piece but everything else is right as rain. That's the trouble with photo's of old furniture, the camera lies, i don't know why exactly. I will probably go have a look see at this table, it's only 100 miles from me at a country auction house in the carolinas. I have no idea how it got there.
     
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  4. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    go fast before IRMA beats u to it !!!
     
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  5. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    LOL, not a chance! I am in Charlotte NC, 180 miles inland from the coast, we may get some wind/rain but not much considering what might hit the coast a couple hrs down the road from here. It looks like a monster storm, hope everyone in it's way stays safe!
     
  6. johnnycb09

    johnnycb09 Well-Known Member

    I just wanted to say James,that thanks to your posts my interest in early American furniture has been renewed. It was my 1st love,and somewhere along the years I stopped paying attention and your posts have inspired me ! I agree with Greg about that top,it did stand out as TOO round.
     
  7. Ghopper1924

    Ghopper1924 Well-Known Member

    It'a a beauty. James, you should teach classes on 18th century American furniture.
     
  8. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Yes, you could be right but, an in person exam is really the only way to be sure. What i know besides the pics is, the top is 3 boards, a small board in the middle with 2 larger boards on either side that are pinned to the legs with wood pins. The fact that the top is "pinned" is a good sign though, it's as it should be.
     
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  9. johnnycb09

    johnnycb09 Well-Known Member

    Correct me if Im wrong,but I thought lesser number of planks meant old growth trees,hence wider boards ? To my rank amateur eye,the middle board looks "older" than the end boards.I wonder if it could have been widened at some point?
     
  10. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    I'm a furniture ignoramus, so I apologize for asking dumb questions. Were the legs cut off? I'm just thinking the table would look more normal if legs were many inches longer below those cross-braces. Has it been refinished?
     
  11. buyingtime777

    buyingtime777 Well-Known Member

    Please let us know more when you get it home James. It is a lovely piece and I find your knowledge fascinating and your taste fabulous. I am still haunted by Ruth's box that you posted about...
     
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  12. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    It's really hard to tell much about old furniture with pics alone, it's an odd circumstance particularly when trying to capture a large area, like a tabletop.

    Well, the feet are an inch or two shorter than when made, known as "ended out". This happens naturally over centuries, the feet get shorter. One must accept things like that with old furniture, part of it's charm. Yes, i would say it's been refinished at some point along the way.

    Oh lord, me too!!! I'l never get over Ruth!
     
  13. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    LOL, no, not cut off, just worn down a tad! This happens A LOT with very old furniture and the above table is over 300 years old so that's a bunch of time for the feet to get dragged about which leads to feet getting worn down. With 16th & 17th century furniture it's even worse because they often were placed on dirt floors leading to feet that are totally gone up to the stretchers from rot due to moisture.
     
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  14. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Here is a table i have had for many years, It's from coastal Connecticut about 1750. The base is cherry wood with a white pine top, note the feet below the turned stretchers. They were once some version of "ball" feet, now reduced to "button" feet.
    table1-1.jpg table1-2.jpg table1-3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  15. LIbraryLady

    LIbraryLady Well-Known Member

    Bring that honey home.
    Good luck.
     
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  16. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Thanks! I plan to, hopefully i haven't shot myself in the foot by making inquiries & requesting more photo's or posting here.
    I have messed up before in this regard, several years ago at a small country auction house in Asheville NC they had this pilgrim chest that they had mis-attributed to mason- messenger shop in boston.
    As soon as i saw a photo of this chest, i knew immediately the front panels were carved by Thomas Dennis, america's most celebrated & researched 17th century joiner. I shared this info with a dealer who handled early american furniture & the dealer was not convinced it was a Dennis chest because of this, that & the other thing.
    The dealer had raised doubts in my mind so back to the research materials i went and, at 5 a.m. the next morning i fired off an email to a leading authority on Dennis who confirmed that yes indeed, this was in fact a Thomas Dennis chest.
    At 5:30 a.m. this guy posts in his blog that a reader had found a "new" Dennis chest! complete with photo's i had sent & the whole 9 yards of research i had done.
    Thus i had in effect alerted every antiquarian in the nation that a new Dennis chest was up for grabs. The condition of this chest was poor, the lid was replaced, the feet were totally gone but, the front panels carved by Dennis were intact.
    Long story short? This chest that was incorrectly attributed in very poor condition with a sale estimate of 2-3k was hammered down for 23k.
    THANKS JAMES! YOU IDIOT! you just cost yourself a chance to own a Dennis chest!
     
  17. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Alrighty Then! A little Deja vu in progress here! once i get into research mode, BAM! i can't seem to help myself.
    Last Friday, I fired off an email complete with pics & info i had gathered to Christopher Storb, who is the Dietrich American Foundation Project Conservator at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. I just got an email back from Chris and according to him

    Dear James,


    Thank you for sending me the images of the table. Oak was definitely used as a secondary wood in the Delaware River Valley though it was not as prominent as the hard pines and, after 1740, yellow poplar. While it would be somewhat surprising to see oak used on what might be considered a Pennsylvania German table, it would not be completely out of the question.


    I really can’t say much about an objects authentication without examining it in person. In the close-up views it does seem to be made of walnut and some of the elements seem to have the appearances associated with historic objects though I would question if that could be said about the top from what I can see viewing the images. Tables with easily removable tops are notorious for turning up with the top missing or replaced.


    The Philadelphia Museum of Art owns a splay leg table of this form. It has been illustrated numerous times over the years and is plate no. 4 of the tables section in the museum’s publicationThe Pennsylvania German Collection. It has been reproduced hundreds of times yet it turned out to be a clever forgery made up of parts of old furniture in an attempt to deceive. It is such a beloved form and desired by collectors that I am wary of any similar tables.


    Best,

    Chris

    And, here is the fake table that Chris mentions which is probably quietly stashed in the basement of museum in Philly
    fake.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  18. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    I went to auction house today & examined the splay leg table that started this thread, wonderful way to spend an afternoon.
    OK, some observations, the left rear stretcher is blown out, not totally disconnected but almost, the top i now feel could be original to the piece which would be wonderful. Someone shot modern staples underneath the top at the point where the boards meet, perhaps in a clumsy attempt to keep them together. Other than that, which both above items are restorable, table is right as rain! The owner of the auction helped me remove the top & turn table upside down and in general was very accommodating to my examination. The bad news? Auction owner is putting off sale for 1 week, instead of this Sat. as originally scheduled, it's the following Sat, the 23rd because of hurricane Irma. He has lots of clients on the coast, Charleston & Savannah for instance, that were impacted by the storm. I HATE IT! I have to wait another week, more time for someone to discover the treasure i have found and snatch it away from poor ol' dad!
     
  19. Mansons2005

    Mansons2005 Nasty by Nature, Curmudgeon by Choice


    Then I shall postpone my "positive thoughts" meditation for a week as well..............for some reason I feel that this piece belongs with you, so I wish for the best...................all I can do, unless you can get the addresses of those who may bid against you..............I do have "some friends" who, while not very polite, can usually persuade others to their way of thinking...........:cool:
     
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  20. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    THANKS! I need all the help i can get! I am starting to get a feeling that this one could slip away........
     
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