Featured Early Cherub Carving

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by Illielee, May 24, 2018.

  1. Illielee

    Illielee Well-Known Member

    Interested to hear some thoughts on the age and origins of this old carving.[​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    Others may weigh in with other opinions; but it is not necessarily old. If for example it had been placed outdoors, a new carving might well show this amount of weathering in only a year or two; on the other hand, if kept indoors, it might take 100 years to look like this.
    A photo of the underside of the base might help determine the type of wood, and would shed some light on the age and likely origin.
    I'd guess Europe for origin, but I could be wrong.
     
  3. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    If I were guessing I'd say German, and out of a church. Beyond that...dunno.
     
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    He is gorgeous! His face is really beautiful.
    As Steve said, we need to see the base as well.
    You did notice this little so and so is an imposter? You can see the ropes that hold his wings in place.:)
    I think he was born not too far away from me, in the Dutch, German, Belgian, Luxemburg border region. Without seeing the base, my guess is 16th century.
    Originally he would have been painted, I think, and part of a group of statues. His left hand could have pointed to a statue of the Virgin Mary. The hands and wings could be early replacements.

    The carver knew the slightly earlier work of Jan van Steffeswert and the 'Master of Elsloo', the names of two groups of 15th-16th century artists who worked in and around the present day southern Dutch provinces of Noord Brabant and Limburg. They used to be attributed to just two people, hence the names.
    You can see some of their work here:
    https://www.bonnefanten.nl/nl/collectie/verzamelaccenten/middeleeuwse_sculptuur_13de_16de_eeuw
    There is an English language button, but that takes you to a general page. So stay on this one, it has a slide show of different statues.

    This 'wannabe angel' could have been sold by an impoverished convent in the 60s, but there could be a nastier scenario.
    During the 60s and 70s many of our antique statues were stolen and shipped directly to the US. I am not saying this one was, but it is likely.
    The places they were stolen from were mainly small village churches and chapels which had survived the ravages of centuries of religious persecution and war. Some of the statues were believed to work miracles. The churches were a welcoming place of peace and hope for the local population, the doors were always open during daytime. The people were heartbroken when their revered statues were stolen.
    Needless to say, the churches are now locked, unless there is someone in attendance. Faithful have to ask for the key and someone to accompany them if they want to pray in their own church. A few communities managed to raise money to have replicas carved, only to find those were stolen as well, from churches and chapels that were locked at the time.
    As I said, I don't know if this angel was stolen, but hundreds, possibly more, were. If anyone comes across religious art like this, please ask for provenance. That isn't always proof, but it is a start.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  5. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    I agree with Any, on date and origin, not too sure if it's ever been painted though.
     
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  6. Illielee

    Illielee Well-Known Member

    Thanks so much. I agree, so much was irrecoverably lost during that period materially and otherwise. He is 21 inches tall. Many damages and repairs from what looks like very different periods.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    He is truly beautiful. A thief has no heart, no soul, no feelings .. just profit for themself. The story of the theft of the statues is heartbreaking AJ .. THE AWFUL THING IS THAT IT MAY HAVE BEEN AN INSIDE JOB IF THE CHURCH WAS LOCKED. Maybe one day they will be returned to those who loved them ... Joy.
     
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  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    He is beautiful from any angle. I am convinced that he is 16th century.
    The repairs may not win a beauty prize, but that is a good sign. Especially if your angel is from the southern Netherlands.

    Since the 16th century there has been a religious divide in the Netherlands. The north was predominantly protestant, the south predominantly Catholic. For centuries Catholics were persecuted and not allowed to practice their religion. They celebrated mass in fields, forests, or in 'Schuilkerken', hidden churches. Statues had to be repaired using whatever materials they could get without attracting attention.
    The visible repairs also make it likely that the angel was painted at some stage.

    This is the most famous hidden church in the Netherlands, in the attic of a big house right in the centre of mainly Protestant Amsterdam, in the centre of the picture:
    [​IMG]
    It is called 'Ons' Lieve Heer op Solder', 'Our Dear Lord in the Attic', and is now a museum.
    The inside, pretty big for a hidden church, but narrower than a regular church, and with impressive galleries to use the height instead of the width:
    [​IMG]

    Just an aside, famous Dutch painter Vermeer was a converted Catholic, and he hid Dutch Catholic symbolism in paintings that were sold to Protestants.;)
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  9. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is heartbreaking. One of the thefts was from a chapel that was dear to me. I was not a member of the community, but it was in one of those perfect idyllic spots, a place of pilgrimage hidden by trees in the wheatfields. It was not far from where I lived at the time, and I used to go there often. The entire area, including the nearby hamlet, is a heritage site.
    The chapel was one of those places where even the replica was stolen. It is owned by the local guild, a tradition which dates back to when local militia protected communities. Here they are, with their chapel (and a local farm horse:)):
    [​IMG]
    I should have explained that better. The churches and chapels were locked, but were broken into.
    I have little hope the statues will ever be returned.:(
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  10. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    Very sad indeed AJ. Somewhat like the time of Henry VIII when he systematically destroyed all things to do with the Catholic Church and introduced the Church of England. He didn't destroy the faith of the Catholic citizens though, they are still plentiful, as they should be. Many beautiful Holy places were burned and destroyed. And during WW2 6 million plus Jewish people were slaughtered .. Shameful indeed. :( .. Joy.
     
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  11. AuDragon

    AuDragon Well-Known Member

    Absolutely stunning. What a beautiful and spiritual face. This little guy has so much presence I can clearly imagine him as part of a much larger statue/carving in a Cathedral or local Church. Very European and the timber is clearly aged. The three holes in the base look like dowel attachments (or screws) which suggests his was part of a larger whole. Also, in his shirt at the back between the bottom of his wings, is that another "attachment" hole? If only he could tell us his story.
     
  12. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    I second that AuDragon:)
    AJ, thank-you for taking the time to share your knowledge and posting all the information, it is very interesting:)
     
  13. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    It might be worth contacting the Dutch embassy and showing them the angel; if it's one of the stolen ones, they might recognize him.
     
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  14. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I don't know if they would recognize him, hundreds were stolen. And I don't know if embassies have stolen art or heritage lists.
    Another problem is that in the 60s and 70s many religious statues had never been photographed. That is different now.
    Interpol has a stolen art database, but it focuses on the big pieces, mostly from Iraq, Syria, etc. Europol works with the Interpol database.

    There is this site:
    http://www.artloss.com/about-us/our-history
    Here is how to request for a search:
    http://www.artloss.com/services/searching
     
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  15. Jaime Riggs

    Jaime Riggs Well-Known Member

    This is so amazing and wonderful to know about! Thank you for sharing. I'm a Catholic convert so very inspiring.

     
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