Hall & Elton Spoons - Coin Or German Silver

Some say that the company used coin silver other that it did not.

 

Silverplated. The Medallion pattern has a date of 1867 in Hagan.

 

I think coin silver. Easy enough to check for silver, anyway. Smell, taste, look, bendiness and ring do it for me.

 

If the wear in the bowl is indicative of anything, it's not coin silver. A plated wear pattern if I ever saw one.

 

What reference says they ever worked in coin silver? Rainwater says the founding purpose of the partnership was the manufacture of german silver flatware and britannia wares. Neither Hall nor Elton shows up in wev's database of silversmiths and related occupations for that period. I am firmly in the "they didn't make coin silver items" camp.

 

Perhaps the source of the misinformation is the notoriously suspect "Thorne" reference, of which I have a copy. He has an entry for a "Hall and Elton", but gives their location as Geneva, NY and a date of 1841.

Edit: The Geneva NY company did use this mark, per the 925 site. But again, their production was plated and german (nickel) silver wares

 

If I recall correctly, there were two firms using the Hall & Elton mark, one in Geneva, NY in the 1840s, producing basic fiddle pattern silverplate and Britannia-metal spoons, with the occasional coin spoon under their mark (I've never run across one) - and one in Wallingford, CT, associated with Hall, Elton & Co., in business from 1837 to 1890, don't believe they produced any solid silver. As Bakersgma already said, this is the Wallingford firm's circa 1867 'Medallion' pattern, and the wear-through to base metal is very apparent in the pics.

~Cheryl

 

You're right about the 2 firms, Cheryl. I jumped the gun, since Rainwater has no information in the 5th edition about the Geneva, NY firm.

The A.B. Hall of the NY partnership does appear in wev's database, with the footnote that his partnership with Elton were "possibly only silverplaters." That partnership still way predates the OP's spoons.

 

From WEV's site - keep in mind that all these names are genealogically related in some way, so it is not a complete list of silversmiths, etc...

A.B. Hall of the Geneva, NY Hall & Elton:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~silversmiths/makers/silversmiths/95039.htm

Almer Hall of the Wallingford, CT Hall, Elton & Co. (with links to Jacob Hall and William Elton), noting German silver production:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~silversmiths/makers/silversmiths/1126.htm

~Cheryl

 

Ah! He's got Almer under "Deacon Almer." That's why I didn't see him.

That's what I get for having one eye on the football game and the other on the computer. I should know better by now.

 

Apparently the deacon was a pious man... One of my ancestor's silversmith nephews, William Waite, was also a Baptist minister (better than a barkeep, I reckon). Almer is listed directly under Abraham in the general list of names, you might have gone to the silversmith list instead, Almer isn't listed there.

~Cheryl

 

That is exactly what I did.

 

thanks for the great info!

 

This thread reminder me that I have a salt shovel by Hall & Elton. It was difficult to ID the metal because it has a yellowish cast and is rough in finish. Silver polish did nothing to it. I'm sorry, I hate to admit that I tried Wright liquid brass polish on it, nothing happened. Back in 2006, I posted a query about it on the Silver Salon. After reading the replies and directions to another Hall & Elton query, I have settled on nickel silver. The shovel definitely was not magnetic which ruled out iron and steel. Did the ice tests: I used copper, sterling, and nickel silver spoons; a slender brass rod; and a 14k gold pin all about the same size as the shovel. In turn held each along side of the shovel in ice water. The sterling spoon and gold pin conducted the cold in a matter of a few seconds. The copper was quick. The nickel silver and the shovel were very slow and the slender brass rod even slower by a few seconds. I've settled on nickel silver.
http://www.smpub.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000577.html

Shhhh..... don't tell deep...., I'm whispering. Later I tried Goddard's brass polish. It worked like a champ removing tarnish. The cloth was black with tarnish. Wellllll, I didn't use Brasso! Now I'm wondering if it is really brass. I don't know if Hall & Elton did any brass.

--- Susan

 

What a story, Susan!

I wonder whether it might be britannia since the silver polish didn't so anything to improve the situation. Doesn't look brass at all, unless the color of it in the picture is vastly different than what it looks like in hand.

I have a multi-piece tea/coffee set made in Britannia by James Dixon abt 1835. I was advised by a collector/repairer who did some minor work on the tea and coffee pots about 10 years ago not to attempt to polish them - EVER. Most of the pieces are now a medium to dark grey, but one creamer that I bought on ebay to make up for the fact that I didn't have one, has a tan/brownish cast to it, almost like tarnished silver can sometimes look. Does that sound like the color you shovel had?

 

Looks like nickel silver to me, the yellowish cast is typical, copper is the main component of both it and brass, so you didn't do anything 'wrong' - frankly, I usually use Nevr-Dull on plain nickel silver, works well, though it's a bit oily and stinky.

~Cheryl

 

>What a story!<

annndddd all this over a probably no-nothing spoon! Seems like I should have had something better to do for know what *someone* would say: made by some blokes in a shed. What's that quip about small things will kill stress-wise, "Best not to sweat the small stuff, because it could kill you." Then again there are all those great "small things" quotes:

"Be faithful in small things because it is in them your strength lies."
"If you can not to great things, do small things in a great way."
"Great things are done by a series of small things brought together"
"Success in life is founded on attention to small things rather than to the large things...."
Etcetera, etcetera....

Thank you Bake and Cheryl. Britannia is certainly a good possibility. Glad to see it looks like nickel silver to you too, Cheryl. Also glad the brass polish didn't hurt it. Having never heard of Nevr-Dull, I'm going to look into it.

--- Susan

 

I read the thread you linked, Susan. Was wondering, does anybody know whether WEV has ever registered here? I know he would comment occasionally on the silver discussions in the other place.

 

If he did, he didn't use his ebay name.

 

Re: Never Dull. It is distinctly weird stuff, ugly, feels nasty and slithery -- but it really works better on certain things than anything else!