Featured Help identifying this Buffet?

Discussion in 'Furniture' started by george carter, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. george carter

    george carter Member

    Hi all.

    I'm a new member here and am looking for some help identifying this piece. I believe it's Early American Empire, regardless I do like it. lol buffey 1.jpg buffet 3.jpg
     
  2. Ghopper1924

    Ghopper1924 Well-Known Member

    Empire, yes. Ca. 1850, walnut. Solid!!!!!
     
  3. george carter

    george carter Member

    Hi and thanks. I had an idea on what it is but wasn't 100% sure. It's a piece I aqquired a few days ago for my Antique Farmhouse. There is a mark on the top which looks like it was something put there, perhaps a makers mark but it's odd that it's on the top. I'm trying to upload a photo of it
     
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  4. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Is the top original? And are the drawers in properly? They look as if they should be reversed.

    Debora
     
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  5. george carter

    george carter Member

    It appears to be original, don't see anything to make me think otherwise. I believe the drawers are correct also, if you reverse them they don't close right and don't look right.
     
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  6. george carter

    george carter Member

    Here is a picture of the mark on the top, any ideas?
    buffet.jpg
     
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  7. marthahill

    marthahill Active Member

    Careful Ghopper ! Rarely were these made of walnut ! Most were faux stained to look like other woods !
    Any mark would not be on the top !
     
  8. george carter

    george carter Member

  9. george carter

    george carter Member

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  10. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    It is late Classical, second half 19th century, mahogany veneer over poplar & pine, machine built.
    Sometimes called pillar & scroll or empire revival but, it is not American Empire
     
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  11. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    There is much confusion over this classical style primarily due to marketing and sales campaigns in the past. In the last few years though most auction houses & dealers have come back to the reality that this style isn't Empire. Perhaps encouraged by lawyers on behalf of clients.
    For a good quick read on this style and Empire as well, Holly Davis at MAD provides good info on this subject.
    From the Wayback machine/ It takes a min for photos to load
    https://web.archive.org/web/2015090...e-furniture-isnt-always-empire-furniture.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
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  12. george carter

    george carter Member

    underside of a drawer
    I'm no expert but I doubt this is machine made, evident by it's construction and dovetails. It is also solid wood, no veneer
     
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  13. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Dovetails on drawer boxes were largely hand made in America until 1900 when they figured out how to do them by machine. Everything except the drawer boxes on American furniture however was built by steam-powered machines starting in the 1840s.
     
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  14. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Wayback is very balky on photos so I'll copy & paste, they are kinda important


    13JUN2009
    By Hollie -
    I interrupt this blog that occasionally masquerades as something scholarly and amounts to not much more than Victorian eye-candy and tabloid-style cabinetmaker worship to discuss the use of “Empire” to describe more than the period technically defines. Too many of us do it (myself included until recently) and I know that many of us care enough to classify properly.

    I’ve invited Hollie Davis of the duo from the popular Maine Antiques Digest column, “The Young Collector” and their newly launched personal blog of the same name to help lay out the background on this period. I’ve been reading the column she has been doing with her husband, Andrew Richmond, for some time and am excited to work with her now and in future.

    If you do a search in many readily-accessible auction results websites for “Empire” you will always get an overly steady stream of furniture that is being classified as “Empire” though they actually fit into the “Late Classical” boundaries.

    It appears that over time, Late Classical’s proximity to Empire has apparently sucked it into that classification vortex. Hollie will clear this up for us below and pay special attention to the Late Classical section.


    Introduction
    Occasionally on Rare Victorian, we’ve dipped out of the Victorian era into the Classical era of American furniture, and some clarification on the period is probably warranted. The most important concept is that the Classical era was really composed of three separate and very distinct phases of fashion – Neoclassical (1790s to 1820s), Empire (1820s to 1840s) and Late Classical (1830s to 1850s). They may all be under the same umbrella due to Greco-Roman inspiration, but we’re talking about three unique styles. To complicate matters, the time periods vary, depending on whether one is discussing French or American Neoclassicism (and even urban American Neoclassicism versus rural American Neoclassicism), and the careers of the artisans closely associated with the period – Phyfe, Lannuier, McIntire, etc. – frequently overlap parts of all three phases.

    Neoclassicism
    Neoclassicism kicked off the Classical era and has, as expected, very solid roots. The movement came about, as most movements do, in response to the proceeding eras – in this case, as a direct response to the ostentatious realms of Baroque and Rococo. It is, as some scholars have observed, two-dimensional in a sense. Aside from some subtle relief carving or the reeding of columns, both clear nods to Classical antecedents, virtually all of the decoration is flat. Neoclassicism aligns closely with the clean lines of what we know as the Federal period, the age of Sheraton and Hepplewhite in England and Samuel McIntire and Duncan Phyfe in America.
    With delicate tapered legs and classical design motifs such as urns and shields, the furniture of this period draws it ornamentation from rich upholstery, inlay and hand-painted gilt designs.
    federal_chair_shield.jpg
    A classical example of a Federal chair (sold at Skinner’s in 2007) – note the shield back, subtle carvings and inlaid fan.

    Empire
    The second phase of the Classical era, Empire, also originated in France, as did most things fashionable at the time. Empire style arrived in the United States in the first decade of the 1800s, perhaps due in large part to the designs of Charles-Honoré Lannuier, a French cabinetmaker who left France during the unrest created by the rising Napoleonic Empire. This is where the politics of furniture become interesting, and one wonders how intentional the ties to the Greco-Roman tradition were; when seeking legitimacy for your new government, aligning yourself with the most respected and idealized cultures in history is probably a smart move! And Empire furniture – true Empire furniture – leaves no doubts as to its affiliations. Of the three phases of the Classical era, Empire is the most figural and the most anthropomorphic; you’ll find caryatids and winged figures serving as supports, acanthus leaves and anthemions atop carved columns, and all of it resting on the paw feet of a mythical creature.
    duncan-phyfe-empire-table.jpg
    A Duncan Phyfe Empire table (New Orleans Auctions, 2007), complete with winged figures, carved columns, gilding and paw feet.

    Ironically, Empire’s appeal was also Empire’s downfall. The elaborate carving that typifies Empire style was time-consuming and unique to each piece. Manufacture was slow, at least slower, and expensive. When you factor in a relatively short period of time in vogue, it’s little wonder that collectors value Empire furniture – there simply wasn’t that much true Empire produced!
    Two factors are primarily responsible for the end of Empire and the rise of Late Classical furniture. First, as mentioned, carving Empire furniture was a lengthy, pricey process, and with the increased use of the band saw in the early 19th century, furniture production began the Industrial Revolution transition from small shops to factory settings. Band saws made heaper production possible, but they also required a different style to be truly effective.

    Second, the Napoleonic Empire collapsed in 1814, and the Bourbon monarchy was restored to the throne. After the French Revolution and Napoleon’s betrayal of the French commoners, the monarchy needed to reject the flashy gilding and elaborate handwork of the Neoclassical and Empire periods, seeking instead the relatively simplicity of what became Late Classical style.


    Late Classical
    Late Classical (sometimes referred to as “pillar and scroll”) is, in many ways, the least elaborate of the Classical Era’s phases. It relies on the sheer presence and drama of wood; large unbroken sections of veneer along with hefty curving legs and large simple columns that speak of classical forms only in their lines. The lines are still there, but most of the “window-dressing” has been stripped away; you’ll see the basic elements of cyma curves, columns, and pillars.

    late-classical-table.jpg
    upload_2021-1-7_21-3-17.gif A Late Classical table (Cowan’s, 2009) – note the broad heavy scrolls and curves and the wide expanses of undecorated veneer.

    This isn’t really just an issue of semantics: Empire and Late Classical furniture pieces are not only vastly different in appearance, but in production methods. They are ultimately on opposite sides of a great divide in antiques with some of the last handcrafted pieces on one side and the beginnings of Industrial Revolution’s mass-produced furniture on the other.


     
  15. george carter

    george carter Member

    I'm having trouble with pics but here are more. 3.jpg
     
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  16. johnnycb09

    johnnycb09 Well-Known Member

    No,but James is . If he tells you something,you can bank on it. :)
     
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  17. george carter

    george carter Member

    2.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg I'm still a little confused on exactly what this piece is. I'm still having a hard time believing it's a machine made piece. I've been examining it and see much evidence to the contrary. Here's a few more pictures that may help in determining it. . The main reason I would like to know is that if it's a hand made piece I will clean it up and leave it as is, if it's a machine made piece I am looking to refinish it to some extent. View attachment 30 4.jpg 5.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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  18. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Hey George,
    It's machine-made, trust me. This Classical style was manufactured by the MILLIONS of pieces in the USA for over 50 years (1850-1900) which is a long time for ANY style to stay popular. Almost every antique mall in America is loaded with this style of furniture, there is A LOT of it out there.
    It's not popular today, to put it mildly, it's large, bulky, and heavy so doesn't fit well in today's world.
    I hope you didn't pay much for this piece as it's in poor to fair at best condition. The veneer is missing on door panels and the top, if not replaced has lost its veneer as well.
     
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  19. marthahill

    marthahill Active Member

    This is correct ! After 1900 this style frequently called Empire Revival although not technically correct just faded from popularity ! Today it is a hard sell even in good condition ! It needs quite a bit of work! If you decide to keep and refinish it test it before jumping in whole hog ! Many of these were faux grained and its hard to tell ! Learn from my mistake ! Imagine the look on my face when all the grain was wiped away with the stripper ! And I knew better but I got in a hurry and didn`t check !
    What makes me think yours could be faux grained is the exact same patterning on the left and right sides ! Look at the bottom of the doors !
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
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  20. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Good Point!
    That's the good news, the bad news is faux grained painting is harder to restore than veneer!
     
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