Help needed to identify paintings.

Discussion in 'Art' started by Montrestar, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Montrestar

    Montrestar New Member

    PSX_20210407_143703_resize_25.jpg PSX_20210407_143023_resize_10.jpg PSX_20210407_143535_resize_48.jpg PSX_20210407_143103_resize_51.jpg PSX_20210407_143343_resize_44.jpg Hi there I got these two paintings awhile ago and have just received them back from cleaning and varnishing.
    They are dated I believe 1892 and the frames date from about 1880.
    They were only given a light cleaning in the frames.
    The restorer told me that she kept them in the frames because the backing was original and it was a shame to take it all apart.
    I thought the signature said Gavray but the more I look maybe Gurney I have looked but just can't find any info. Any help would be much appreciated.....
     
  2. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Apologies for putting this so baldly but... I see nothing about yours works or their frames that doesn't lead me to believe that they're not Chinese factory paintings.

    Debora
     
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  3. antidiem

    antidiem Well-Known Member

    Agree with Debora, they look like "factory" paintings to me too, and the frames are not in keeping with the quality and style of antique wooden frames. The back has been "whitewashed" and your "restorer" did you no favor to not take these apart. Paper backing is nothing. I suspect if taken apart, the sides of these would show the truth of their age.
     
    moreotherstuff likes this.
  4. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    The signatures don't seem to match
     
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  5. antidiem

    antidiem Well-Known Member

    agreed, thanks
     
  6. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    I have doubts about the age of the frames too. Notice how they both have exactly the same signs of wear? If the back panel is plywood, definitive (as I learned here from verybrad.)

    Debora
     
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  7. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Just one other comment... Another giveaway is that the subject of these paintings don't appear to have been observed from life. The chickens are in unnatural poses and their scale against the objects around them is incorrect.

    Debora
     
    antidiem likes this.
  8. antidiem

    antidiem Well-Known Member

  9. antidiem

    antidiem Well-Known Member

    This is an honest question and not meant to belittle without purpose:
    How would the restorer restore the edges that are stuck beneath the frames without taking the paintings OUT of the frames? Can you tell the difference between pre-restoration and post-restoration? These appear never to have been "restored" to my point of view, never needed restoration.
     
  10. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    The post above prompts me to add too that... My intention is to be helpful, nothing more.

    Debora
     
  11. Montrestar

    Montrestar New Member

    Hi there they were cleaned I have pre cleaning photos somewhere where the old varnish was removed.
    They were definitely cleaned and revarnished the varnish wasn't totally dried when I collected them....
     
  12. Montrestar

    Montrestar New Member

    Hi there thank you for your comments and advice.
    On this occasion we will beg to differ on the authenticity of these pieces and frames.
    They were bought from a private collection in Normandy France where I bought 10 paintings from the 1890s to 1910.
    The frames have been repaired when they were tastefully cleaned for resale.
    The restorer whose husband had a gallery in Mayfair for over 25 years who confirmed they were of the correct age.
    I'm really surprised you would all think that these are Chinese copies but we all have an opinion I suppose.
    Many thanks again everybody.........
     
  13. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    "The restorer told me that she kept them in the frames because the backing was original and it was a shame to take it all apart........."

    & you paid someone ......for not wanting to properly do the work in question....and offering u this fairytale !

    that's just sad .....:oops:
     
  14. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    from the style and subject they are consistent with your time frame - perhaps even a bit earlier and later. during the fin de siècle era there were many non-academic artists that showed the peaceful countrylife after the harsh Franco-Prussian war. many were using a style that looks a bit naïf today.
    the landscape is French, could well be in the North with its windmill; the often found round tower on the second one is a very typical French "pigeonnier" or "colombier" that was for the pigeons and showed that the farm or its possessor were of good standing because there was a regal tax for pigeons in the past.
    all in all you should ideally find someone near you that has at least a basic knowledge about France or even knows French for further research.
    good luck.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    How big are they?

    I don't think you can be sure about the age without removing one from it's frame to see what kind of panel was used. Identifying the panel could make all the difference.
     
    komokwa likes this.
  16. Montrestar

    Montrestar New Member

    Hi there they will go back to have one taken out of the frames.
    The frames are 100% 1880s and I have no reason to believe the paintings are not correct but I will disturb one of the backs to see what's there.....
     
  17. Montrestar

    Montrestar New Member

    Hi there one will be removed when I visit again.....
     
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  18. Montrestar

    Montrestar New Member

    Thank you so much for your help and understanding.
    Many thanks ....
     
  19. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Montrestar, just a gentle suggestion... Why don't you do a Google Images search and see if you can find anything remotely like your paintings from the Victorian era? And then ask yourself... If your paintings weren't conveniently dated, would you attribute them to that period on execution alone?

    Debora
     
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  20. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    why should he search the Victorian era when they were bought from a French collection ?
    when the whole lot was sold as 1890s to 1910, then I'd rather expect a research if they could be from a minor artist that was into some sort of pointilism or divisionism or even some obscure direction of Neo-Impressionism.
     
    Montrestar likes this.
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