I need help identifying a dagger

Discussion in 'Militaria' started by Alain B, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Alain B

    Alain B New Member

    I am uploading 2 pictures of a dagger I found in France. Thanks for you help, Alain.
     

    Attached Files:

    moreotherstuff likes this.
  2. afantiques

    afantiques Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying it is, but to me it looks like a piece of decorative iron work off a fence. If you edit your post and select full size for the images they will not appear as thumbnails. Can you show the whole of the handle area, the end is cut off in the picture.
     
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  3. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    upload_2019-12-23_2-47-58.jpeg


    upload_2019-12-23_2-55-27.jpeg

    even the strangest of handles allow one to grip a blade.....
    yours looks more like the head of a pike, or spear..
     
  4. Alain B

    Alain B New Member

    I doubt that since I found this behind a brick wall of a Paris basement that broke apart and the dirty was falling into the basement. The MET museum has the same one. A very small difference in the handle. Slight difference.
     
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  5. Alain B

    Alain B New Member

    The MET museum called it a Jamdhar Katari, Indian Hindu Kush 17-19th century but I think this is incorrect.
     
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  6. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Welcome Alain.
    Amazing find.
    It is indeed a Jamdhar Katari, from northwest India. They are pretty rare, and most have a more decorated top. The decorated top makes the hilt look more convincing as a hilt. The fact that they are so rare could be why you didn't find many other ones, but this is the real deal.
    Here is a similar one:
    [​IMG]
    http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=8699

    More Jamdhar Kataris:
    http://oriental-arms.co.il/search.php?q=Jamdhar+Katari&s.x=0&s.y=0
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  7. aaroncab

    aaroncab in veritate victoria

    I'm always perplexed when people leave out information in their requests that is incredibly pertinent to helping identify the item. Not only did you know the Met has a similar item (why you think you should dismiss their ID then come ask here without mentioning it is beyond me) - you also left out where/how you obtained the piece.

    Not trying to pick on you, I'm just confused I guess.
     
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  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I agree with aaron, it is always best to give as much information as you can. It helps our thought processes, which involve rummaging around in the crevices of the brain and throwing any excess information we have accumulated to one side.;)
     
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  9. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    No , please PICK....pick all you want !!
    I'm a blade guy and this one went over my head.
    It indeed must be little known and hard to come by for me never to have seen one before.
    Knowing what we now know, I would have been digging like a mole to find further conformation, and extolling the virtues of the OP's blade which looks better than the one AJ found.....
    But now....I won't !
     
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  10. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    You all know my catch phrase.... Help us, to help you !!
    It really does mean something, specially when we lack info the OP already has, coupled with poor photographs.
     
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  11. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I am glad it went over your head instead of through it.:nurse:
    But I agree, we need all the information the poster already has. And you are still the forum's blade guy.:)
    I came across a Jamdhar Katari before, probably when researching the Indian influence on the Javanese keris. This isn't related to keris at all, but you know how it is with research.
    It does look much better, and now you said it anyway.:playful:
     
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  12. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    It does look much better, and now you said it anyway.:playful:

    Ya...well...i'm upset....but don't want to be too much of an ass !!!:wideyed::wideyed:
     
    aaroncab and Any Jewelry like this.
  13. Alain B

    Alain B New Member

    I have also searched my dagger on the internet and it was very difficult to find. My goal was to come across someone who had seen it before. Thank you "Any jewelry" for the response. They just sold the same one on Oriental-Arms but I am not sure for how much. I am not sure why me finding it as a little kid in a basement in Paris has anything to do with the dagger's origin. Even in Paris France it is out of place. It is clearly not a piece of decorative iron work off a fence. That is the type person I was trying to weed out by not mentioning the MET. There are two characters on the second picture that I posted. It is on the blade near the handle. Does anyone recognize these symbols? One looks like the fish symbol and the other one a 3.
     
  14. aaroncab

    aaroncab in veritate victoria

    We didn't know how/where you had found it (or whether that was helpful in deducing an origin) until you explained it. "In France" doesn't tell us a whole lot. I'm still not sure how "not mentioning the MET" would weed out incorrect guesses, seems to me it would encourage more incorrect guesses. You have a nice item here, with an interesting story behind it - I do hope you're able to find out more about it.
     
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  15. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Pleasure, Alain.
    Mentioning the MET wouldn't have been a problem, we are used to questioning any information. In this case I had come across them before, and found some extra info.
     
    komokwa likes this.
  16. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    It is clearly not a piece of decorative iron work off a fence. That is the type person I was trying to weed out by not mentioning the MET............

    You don't get a say in who answers , or comments on any given thread...:stop:
    so try not to ' weed out ' the folks you may need one day...;)
     
  17. Alain B

    Alain B New Member

    Komokwa - This was my first time using this site. One person was helpful and the rest seemed to be testy like yourself. The first person replying to my post is telling me it is a fence post, sorry, should not be replying if they don't know. That is like the co-worker that has an answer for everything but knows nothing about the subject at hand. Either you came across this dagger or not. I did my research before coming onto this site. I found 1 picture of my dagger. Yes, it was on a MET Pinterest website. It only had the name of the dagger. I could not find anything else anywhere. So yes, probably rare. At one point two people where talking negatively about me on my own post. I could have found this dagger here in the US or in Montreal Canada, and? Again, either you have come across this dagger or not. It is a mystery that it was located behind a brick was in a basement in Paris. I am pretty sure I will NEVER find that answer but the name and origin of this dagger, yes. I can tell you as a first time user of this website, well, I have a bad taste in my mouth. There were more negatives than positives. Thank god for "Any jewelry" !!! (Cited from: https://www.antiquers.com/threads/i-need-help-identifying-a-dagger.44890/)
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  18. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Nahh......only testy when it was noted that you had important information that had not been shared with us in an effort to help us...help you !

    I was more upset , only because I should have known this blade....but did not....as my 1st post clearly demonstrates.

    I did note it as being some kind of weapon.....but I was off the mark....as was AF....cuz y'know...none of us are perfect !!

    You brought us a really unique item....and it's a good thread where I at least....& you...have learned a lot !!
    We don't always get to the finish in a straight line........;)

    Happy New Year !!
     
  19. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    I’m late to the party but I’d be very interested to know the distance between the front and rear hand guards. It doesn’t look like Alain’s hand would be able to grip this item using the handle. I’d also like to see the handle between the guards, without the hand in the way, if that wouldn’t be too much trouble.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
    aaroncab likes this.
  20. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    The symbols may have been intended to be Greek lower case letters omega and alpha, but that stuff’s all Greek to me. If that was the intent, their arrangement on the metal makes no sense to me.
     
    aaroncab likes this.
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