Imari? Age?

I posted a question on the P&G Board, but I'm not sure there are any members left hanging out on there, LOL. Here's a copy and paste of my question. I don't think I did too badly for $3 per plate.

 

Well duh on me. Here's my questions.

Hi all,

I can't figure out if this is Japanese or Chinese Imari. My bet is on Japanese, but I needed to run this by someone else first. Also, any thoughts on age? I've never seen Imari with yellow in it before, so I'm not even completely sure it IS traditional Imari. The scalloped borders make me think it's Japanese, at any rate.

I have a set of seven of these, nearly identical, but of course they are are handpainted so there are slight differences.

Would appreciate any info.

Please see this post and the one below it for pics of the base and detail.

Thanks!

 

Chrysanthemums usually tend toward Japan, but I'm getting a Chinese vibe. It's yummy

 

Thanks so much, Bev.
You know, I am puzzled because it appears to be quite an old piece, yet there are no stilt marks. If it is Chinese that would explain why no stilt marks. Either that, or they (I have seven of them )are not as old as I had thought (and hoped!) Anyone know if the Chinese ever scalloped any of their porcelain? That might be the key to it.

 

Imari generally refers to an area of export from Japan.
Imari is generally a cobalt blue underglaze with deep red and gold overglaze.

There is English Imari as well as Chinese Imari.

I think yours is Japanese.

Your colors don't quite look right for Imari.
I think it looks more like Kakiemon, which is part of Arita where Imari was exported from.

I know I don't have all that quite right. Just my general understanding without doing a fifteen minute google and becoming an expert.

 

I just sold a similar small bowl (mine was marked though) which I did a lot of research including checking out a couple books from the library and now I know a little...I listed my similar plate as Imari Arita Japanese Porcelain. Some of the details to look for are blue under glaze with gold over design and with polychrome over glaze design, blue under glaze interior rings. mimicking tapestry. Here is mine.

I think your pieces date around 1850-1920

 

lol still learning how to post on this board!

 

Thanks Trip. I notice that it doesn't look like yours has stilt marks either....I thought all older Japanese porcelain had stilt marks?

 

Oh dear. Well, imari is only Japanese. Copies of imari style can be Chinese or English. The Chinese can also reproduce (er, fake) Japanese imari, but true imari is Japanese. Just making sure that the terminology is correctly understood.

 

So....Wendy. Do you believe my plates are Japanese Imari? Any thoughts on age? And, why no stilt marks?
I did know that the Japanese "invented" Imari, but Chinese Imari is commonly called "Chinese Imari." I did entertain the notion that these *could* be some kind of Imari Style porcelain from England....I have been known to buy a few of those too, thinking they were Chinese or Japanese. Thanks

 

Ah, you'll need someone better at asian ceramics than I to say if Chinese or Japanese. For me, I think Japanese is usually more delicate/refined in decoration while Chinese is bolder and often -- JMHO -- not quite as good quality. And yes, I realize people say Chinese or English imari, but I wanted to point out that they are really "common usage" terms, but not really correct terms. I can't really make my mind up about this one, but I'm "thinking" more likely Chinese. Sorry!

 

They’re called Imari ware because that was the place from which they were exported to the west. They were made for export in the main, were predominantly Japanese but a small number we’re Chinese. I’m not aware that they were in any way fakes, they were just the objects of their region and time.