is this ancient gaelic?

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by lisaS, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    Hi all, this was washed up from the Irish sea, lodged under a rock, it looks like bronze/copper and the pattern is quite beautiful any ideas? It weighs 2 Grams and is 4cm.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the forum, Lisa.
    When you post pictures, could you click on full image? Not everyone can click on thumbnails.
    Here is info:
    https://www.antiquers.com/threads/create-a-thread-pics.107/

    The fragment is beautiful, a very nice find.
    When I saw the title, I thought you meant Gaelic as in the language, but you probably mean Celtic art or culture. Gaelic script looks pretty much like Latin script, with a few additions. The old style letters, like in the famous Gospels, are very round, sometimes angular. You still see that style in anything connected with the Celtic lands, including the name signs of Irish pubs all over the world.
    This fragment does not look particularly Celtic to me.
    Frankly, it looks like there is some Arabic calligraphy in between the leaf motifs. There could be, objects travel the world through trade.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    How lovely, thank you I will check my pictures have you any ideas on possible age?
     
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  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It is too small for me to give even an approximate date, but it looks antique, that is all I can say. And Arabic is my idea, it may not be right.
    Is there a museum in your area you take it to? Even if they are not specialized in Islamic art, they can probably give you an approximate date for the copper.
    These are antique Middle Eastern metal objects with calligraphy and floral motifs, to give you an idea of what I mean.
    Persian:
    [​IMG]

    Damascus ware, Syria:
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    Thank you I will take it to my local museum to see if they can give me an idea, have you seen my other item that looks like some kind of knife/sword that has been made with a few strips of metal forged together rather than one piece? I wonder I you know anything about that?
     
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  6. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Where can I find it?
     
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  7. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    I posted it yesterday under "what is this"
     
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  8. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    In the metals forum
     
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  9. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Sorry, no.
    Could it be a dagger of folded metal? Folding the metal during the forging process to create layers. That makes it stronger, a technique used in for instance Samurai swords and Indonesian keris.
     
  10. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    Can you see this pic?
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Yes, thanks, I saw it on the forum. I meant sorry, no, I don't know what it is.
     
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  12. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    Ah haha thank you so much for your time this morning
     
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  13. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Pleasure. Will you let us know what the museum people say?
     
  14. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    Of course very very interesting!
     
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  15. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    This may be Anglo Indian brass which was originally silver plated. I've a few late 18th and early 19th C bowls with similar decoration and Arabic style script. The script is similar to a tughra.
     
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  16. lisaS

    lisaS Active Member

    Wow beautiful thank you I'm not sure what to do with it yet, I was drawn to it on the rocky beach it was half wedged under a rock waiting to be discovered
     
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  17. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Yes, given the location, the fragment could be from an Indo-Persian style object. Anglo-Indian means a European object, for instance a tea set, made in Indian (Pakistani, etc) style and artistry. I think that is unlikely, but Indian colonial provenance, yes likely.

    Tughras are also in Arabic script. It is difficult to see from this small fragment if it was part of a tughra (monogram, often used as a seal) or a text.
    This is an example of a tughra on one of my favourite Uzbek rings:
    upload_2017-9-23_13-48-18.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
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