Jacobean Cupboard/ Dresser c1650 or later?

Here is an old Welsh dresser that I came across, said to have been examined by experts who dated it to approx 1650.



It has two parts:
- The bottom half has a large cupboard with two doors and a small drawer situated above the central panel.
- The top half has 3 panels with 2 shelves in front.



I think this top half comes from a separate piece of furniture as it sits on top of the cupboard and is not connected in any way. There is also a clear difference in the colour of wood (as can be seen in the image above); the cupboard is darker than the light-brown shelving.

So my question is when does the bottom cupboard date to?

I will add a bunch of photos on two posts along with things of note...


1. Sits on flattish bun feet


2. Has the remains of what seems to be a latch?


3. (Bottom) later repairs? Timber seems very old also.
(Top) can see the small drawer and latch?


4. (Left) Crude iron hinges, unsure when this particular type dates to???
(Right) moulding has fallen away


5. Old key hole perhaps?


6. Most of the timber seems to have a deep patina. Not sure about top shelf and the back panelling.


7. Not much detail to side. No evidence of a frame. I would have expected a panel within moulding...? Suggests later than Jacobean?


8. The small drawer. Either the metal handles have been lost and replaced with these wooden ones, or it is not original Jacobean...

 

Continued...


9. No dovetail joint. Only what seems to be dowels or maybe square nails?


10. Other side of small drawer


11. Close up of iron hinge on cupboard door


12. Close up of some of the knobs on the shelves (top half not the cupboard). Seems to use nails which is unusual.

Any ideas of the true age of both halves would be much appreciated thanks!!!

 

Calling in one or two who have better knowledge than I.....looks like you've looked it over pretty thoroughly!!!! @Ghopper1924, @blooey, @verybrad, @James Conrad & @Fid ???? The more eyes, the better!

 

Thanks! Yes I’ve examined it quite a bit, but a few knowledgeable eyeballs are needed on this one! Obviously nothing beats seeing it in person though..

 

Out of my realm of expertise. Certainly appears to be older than 19th century but can't say much beyond that.

 

What country was this found in? Bottom looks ok for originating in the 17th, with a bit of later predictable fiddling with. Top looks Victorian.

 

England, London

 

Cheers. that helps. Like me then. I'll stick with that first thought.

 

The top looks to be ca. 1900. Odd use of nails with those knobs.

The bottom cupboard...... doesn't seem quite right. The decorative motifs, some of the construction...seems like someone of the same (ca. 1900) era trying to produce ye olde cupboard, and not doing the best job. It could very well be (mostly) 17th century, but I wouldn't buy it.

Better to check out Marhamchurch Antiques for some 16th-17th century quality examples.

 

You need to see some new experts, this cupboard, welsh dresser, pewter cupboard, or whatever one calls it is nowhere close to 1650, more like 1850 and later.

About the same as the top I would guess, mid to late 19th century. The construction is all wrong for "joined" 17th century furniture.
The Victorians in England were VERY fond of the earlier styles and manufacturers there were happy to supply that demand during the victorian age.
The earlier style preference was so strong that many fine 18th-century English pieces were defaced by carving in an attempt to "make" them appear earlier, destroying their value in the process.

Agreed or someone who handles early English oak regularly like Marhamchurch who is in Devon, is pretty sure there are others as well closer to London where you are.

 

Your cupboard is a 19th-century style piece that has lived a very hard life, value would be minimal.

 

It needs looking at by someone in the UK, not the US. There's a couple of decent people in Knightsbridge and one or two out in Berkshire, if I can remember the details. Or contact Roseberys or Bainbridges in Ruislip, or Chiswick Auctions. They all call on experts when needed or have them inhouse.

 

Thank you again for an informative reply!

I don’t question your overall evaluation of the piece but I have to say I’m surprised. To me the bottom cupboard seemed a lot more worn and aged than the top half.

The central panel for example; the damage is really smooth and shows an equal patina to the rest of the timber. Did the Victorians intentionally damage furniture to fake age? I am amazed this damage and wear could have been worn so smooth in only 100 years of use?!

It would seem construction is the thing to look out for, I had found it strange that the side was a single panel, not showing any sort of frame. It is similar to this one below:

I had thought that maybe this use of a single side panel with no frame (rail or mullion) was maybe a Georgian method of construction..?

 

Thank you that’s really useful!

 

Most welcome. There's another good West London one if I can recall the name. I've sold a few bits through Rosebery's who are excellent. And whilst it isn't London, I can also recommend Tooveys. I do doubt that the bottom half is Victorian, it's not deliberate enough in the aging, if that makes sense. It's had a hard life and been got at. Haven't we all!

 

@Wentworth , you keep plowing the same ground, I dimly remember an "Elizabethan" cupboard you posted about a few weeks ago.
These pieces are not even remotely close to period, they are victorian style pieces at best. I don't think it matters if this cupboard has a married top/bottom or if manufactured at different points during the 19th century.
They are not period, simple as that, ditto the Elizabethan cupboard. No amount of comments are going to change those facts.
Period 17th century joined furniture is available all over the UK, it isn't hard to find if one is seriously looking.
Ditto high-quality victorian style pieces are available as well which this cupboard is not, it's of poor to mediocre quality that has lived a hard life.

 

Let's see what a UK based furniture expert says.

 

I have nothing to add except that I like it and now I am curious. Please post an update if you get more info! : -)

 

Agreed!