Featured Lace: made by hand or machine?

Discussion in 'Textiles, Needle Arts, Clothing' started by moreotherstuff, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    A cap and collar. Family traditiom says mid-19th C, probably German (maybe Saxony). Big enough to fit a small woman, or an older child. Presumably part of a regional, traditional, costume. Is it even lace? Is it crochet?










    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  2. Mill Cove Treasures

    Mill Cove Treasures Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure about the collar but the head piece looks handmade. The collar looks like it could be a combination of machine and hand stitching. Crochet made with fine thread is considered lace.
  3. pearlsnblume

    pearlsnblume Well-Known Member

    Nice pics MOS as always.
  4. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Yes, the cap is very finely worked crochet. The collar looks like hand work on top of a machine made netting.
  5. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    I'm with @2manybooks on both pieces.

    I think the collar would be what's called a "needlerun lace" (embroidery on machine made net)... and I think the padded bits may identify it further, but checking my books will wait until tomorrow.
  6. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    Both are very beautiful ... Joy. :)
  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I agree with the others on the manufacture of the lace. I am not sure the two belong together.

    The cap certainly looks German, but I think coastal East Friesland in northern Germany. It is the coast between the Dutch and Danish borders.
    The cap was sometimes worn with with a smaller (black) bonnet which covered most of the cap, with only the trim peeping out:

    Things were entirely different in the days of the Hanseatic league, when the region was the only way for Hansa town Hamburg to reach the sea, and trade ships got their provisions along that part of the coast:
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  8. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    I'm questioning my identification on the second piece. Can we see a closeup of the ground (the net, the background bit)? Preferably on a contrasting color?

    Edit: "the ground (the net, the background bit)" or, as my other lace book reminds me: "the mesh"
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    Bronwen likes this.
  9. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    zi.jpg Also, if you could provide a close-up of an area like the one circled. Please include the edge.
    Bronwen and 2manybooks like this.
  10. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    For those of you keeping score, I am now back to thinking the first identification of the collar is correct.

    I'm going to stop thinking about it now. Lace is hard. :bucktooth::hilarious:
  11. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Here's the circled area:

    This is as close as I can get to the mesh:

    This is the inside edge of the collar:

    And as close as I can get to that:

    Some more general views of the pattern:


  12. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    LORDY, MOS, THEY ARE BOTH SIMPLY GORGEOUS!!!!:jawdrop::singing:
    Looking at the top of that cap and some wedding bell pillow cases that I have, I wonder if that might be a brides set?? AND I might think a museum might be interested in acquiring those pieces. (Although they are notorious for preferring 'donations'!) BTW, AWESOME images!!!!:singing::singing:
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  13. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Front or back, looks the same to me. The ornament seems to integrated into the mesh, as opposed to sitting on top of it.

    This originated with the German part of the family who immigrated mid-19th C. There is no one left to say with certainty where in Germany they came from. My father sometimes said Saxony, sometimes Swabia. These names were probably half-remembered from childhood. Who knows where they actually originated. The name is a very common one.

    AJ's first photo is pretty much what I had in mind (from those old National Geographics).
  14. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    Wonderful pieces! Do you have someone in the family to pass them on to who would appreciate them? If not, then it gives you something to think about! Family heirloom items are great, IF there is someone who will love them!!!!
  15. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Little interest among the current youngsters unless, of course, I stick some horrendous value on it.

    I have an apron I assume to be a "goes-with". Haven't photographed it yet. It's mostly white cloth with just a few lace accents.
  16. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    This is what happens when you need an actual expert.

    I'm having a hard time categorizing this piece... the ground looks like Buck's Point Ground to me (a bobbin lace), but .... the rest doesn't fit with that.

    (SIDEBAR: My favorite lace book calls this simply, "point ground" with multiple "also known as" including Buck's)

    At least I don't think so. Simplest answer is definitely "needlerun lace" -- it's what makes the most sense, would have been most common.

    *squinting at pictures*

    Expert needed.

    Whatever an expert would call it, it is truly lovely.
  17. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    One last kick at the mesh can. I tried scanning the piece this morning.
    The massive bit at the bottom is the edge of the piece.
    kyratango likes this.
  18. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    Yes, that seems about right. :hilarious:

    But thank you, @moreotherstuff ,for posting the scan. It allowed me to free up the brain cells that wouldn't let this go.

    The inset diagram is the machine-made "bobbinet" structure (original image by Davideilbeck at the English language Wikipedia). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbinet

  19. Northern Lights Lodge

    Northern Lights Lodge Well-Known Member

    The cap is what is known as Irish crochet; yes handmade. Probably, 1880 - 1900. Irish crochet has those cute little dimensional raised petals and "tulip" shapes or leaves. If I knew how to add photos - I would; that document Irish crochet - but you should be able to google it. Darling little cap.

    As for the collar; I am quite certain that it is completely machine made. Probably circa 1920-30. It has the look of a piece that may be composite; made of several machine made pieces which are machine stitched together. Very pretty really.

    Hope that helps!
    Sincerely, Leslie at the Northern Lights Lodge
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