Featured Milk glass mystery

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by tomf, Mar 29, 2022.

  1. tomf

    tomf New Member

    I wonder if anybody can help me identify this small fragment of milk glass? Not much to go on, I know, but perhaps the pattern is familiar.
    It was found at an old indian site in California and may have been repurposed as a tool.
    A ball-park date for this kind glass would be wonderful. Anything more, a bonus.
    Apologies if this inquiry is too off-topic. I have labored hard with google but failed to crack the mystery.

    Thank you.

    20220215_140632.jpg


    20220215_140800.jpg
     
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  2. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    Could you show the back? It's hard to tell if the flat portion is a base or perhaps a top rim from this angle.
     
    judy likes this.
  3. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    what kind of tool?
     
  4. tomf

    tomf New Member

    Thanks for your reply. Frustratingly, the item has disappeared into the black hole that is my office -which happens a lot. I'll hunt it down eventually but no more pics till I do.
    The bottom edge, that you can't see so well, looks like base, rather than rim, to me.
    Too thin for a cold cream jar, I think.
    I wonder if you have seen this type of fine embossing before and is there a name for it? That might help me refine my search. Also, could the pattern be european?
     
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  5. tomf

    tomf New Member

    Most likely a scraper/blade. You can see it's been shaped approximately by hammer percussion. Probably a finger tool and not hafted.
     
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  6. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    sorry, I'm not seeing that..:oops:
     
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  7. tomf

    tomf New Member

    Perhaps you are not familiar with this type of expedient tool. It has been roughly shaped into a knife-form with a choil. A jagged edge along one side of blade is produced by chipping. Flakes removed from one side only to create a bevel. This doesn't happen in accidental breakage.
     
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  8. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I wasn't aware this type of glass flakes.....or could be chipped with any consistency like a stone arrowhead.

    Any 'glassies ' know of this type of milk glass being made into a tool??
     
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  9. tomf

    tomf New Member

    Glass is perfect for tool manufacture. Has conchoidal quality with predictable fracture. Also very sharp. Think of obsidian.
    This particular glass is too thin to 'knapp' but still useful when shaped and given a working edge.
    Indians would salvage settler refuse for tool material. Glass, porcelain and metal. Fairly rare to find them though.
     
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  10. bercrystal

    bercrystal Well-Known Member

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  11. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    Fascinating. I find bits while hiking and just assumed they were trash. I'll have to look at them more closely in the future to see if I can see any unusual marks that show it is repurposed.
     
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  12. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I still see a broken piece of glass.....
    and nothing to lead me to believe that an Indian ever touched this........:meh:
     
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  13. ola402

    ola402 Well-Known Member

    Agree.

    To me it looks like a broken piece of late 1800s to early 1900s opal glass. I would guess that it was from some kind of bottle. When did American tourists start tromping around all over old Native American sites out west? I can't remember. When train travel became available? Was it the early 1900s? I'll check with Ken Burns. Perhaps left by someone then who was digging around? A tool of expediency maybe not purposely made. (oh darn, I broke my cologne bottle! but I can use it to dig around here.) Just musing here.

    Tom, hold it up to a light source to see if it has a "glow" around the edges. Does the light turn the thinner areas yellowish?
     
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  14. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

  15. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    I think you are right. This is a cup in that pattern and it seems to match the pattern shown by tomf. Also a reference to a site dating it 1930-36.

    http://www.ndga.net/articles/eickamsweetheart.php

    https://www.etsy.com/listing/962365...yGUuMIdGzzj8zE14Z2gB_mRdgkBMox_caAphqEALw_wcB
    upload_2022-4-2_16-21-39.png

    upload_2022-4-2_16-22-0.png upload_2022-4-2_16-24-17.png
     
  16. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

  17. bercrystal

    bercrystal Well-Known Member

  18. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

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  19. ola402

    ola402 Well-Known Member

    Would the broken piece be from a pitcher or maybe cup, cream/sugar? Most pieces of American Sweetheart that I've seen are very thin (which the OP alluded to).

    @tomf What does this mean for you? Now that you know this glass was manufactured in Charleroi PA during the depression years (1930-36)? Any significance to that?

    Just curious.
     
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  20. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    I'm not familiar with the pattern however some pieces, such as sugar and cream, seem to be footed while tomf's does not seem to be. I wondered if it might be from a cream soup bowl as that has the gentle rounding down to the base rim like the cup has however the pattern on the soup is different, almost upside down, and doesn't seem a match. Perhaps there are other pieces that would also be possible?

    Cream soup
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/165207057667?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=ca6713d4a6e445db9a3f4052aa069817&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=165207057667&itm=165207057667&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=MacBeth-Evans&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:0862ab1b-b3b1-11ec-84ac-c2593d21a99e|parentrq:f20c007017f0acf228a6d37dfff595d0|iid:1

    upload_2022-4-3_21-0-17.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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