Featured Oil Painter ID Mystery!?

Discussion in 'Art' started by Tarren M Bailey, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Tarren M Bailey

    Tarren M Bailey New Member

    I'm trying to figure out some information on two very cool old oil paintings. One is of a formal man and has a signature that is hard to make out but says 1850. The other is of a woman but I cannot seem to find the signature but it could be under the frame. I'm trying not to remove the frame if possible :/

    This is such a mystery, I have found two painters that it could be maybe but any suggestions would be helpful! I am pretty sure the painting of the man by is Ehregott Grunler but not 100%. This is the only thing I can find that is sold and the signature looks like it matches? https://www.mutualart.com/Artwork/Herrenportrat/A11245ACFC0746BC

    Hopefully someone has some information to help solve my mystery?!
    Thank you!

    woman-2.jpg womannew.jpg woman-6.jpg woman-7.jpg
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  2. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I like them both, but maybe have a preference for the second. The portrait of the woman is rather formulaic, but the man has been placed in an open air setting that grounds him in the context of 19th C romanticism.
    cxgirl, sabre123, judy and 1 other person like this.
  3. johnnycb09

    johnnycb09 Well-Known Member

    Very special if they are. A very skilled artist. I do wonder if the lady has been restored.
    sabre123, judy and Christmasjoy like this.
  4. Pat P

    Pat P Well-Known Member

    I agree... the portraits were done by a very good painter.

    To my eye, it does look like your second painting could be by Ehregott Grunler. The style looks similar and the dates are close.
    sabre123, judy and Christmasjoy like this.
  5. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

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  6. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I think you definitely have two different artists here, and the second is from the better of the two.
  7. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    agree. one by Ehregott Grünler. well known, painted Goethe a.o. (that was a well-known drunkard like Charles Bukowski...).
    the woman could be by Grünler as well, seems he painted Elisabeth Röckel, an opera singer, at one time. (she was the founder of the unsuccessful musical style Röckel Roll and died impoverished...).
  8. AuDragon

    AuDragon Well-Known Member

    I thought she was best remembered for her legacy of the head-bow? :joyful:

  9. AuDragon

    AuDragon Well-Known Member

    Hi Tarren and welcome. This is a great site for information, opinions and a little fun.

    I also really like the gentleman, but was not able to find another signature of his to compare. The lady looks less authentic to me but could have suffered from too much cleaning or been restored. She just doesn't seem to have the same subtle skill that the man does. However, they are both very impressive paintings.
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  10. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

  11. AuDragon

    AuDragon Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the link Fid.
    In the eighth painting of the lady, you can see how different the style is to the lady above. The use of colour, the soft blush on the cheeks, the more tonal facial colour, the softer and more flowing clothes are more similar to the gentleman above. Also, as mos said, the background of the gentleman is more expressive, much like several works in the link.
    I'm also thinking the man is by Grunler, and the lady not.
    judy likes this.
  12. i need help

    i need help Well-Known Member

    Maybe give photos of the backs of paintings, even if nothing is written, it could be helpful.
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  13. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    A blacklight/UV-A light can assist in determining if there's been a restoration -- differences in the paint that don't show up in normal light can show up under blacklight.
    judy, Fid, Bakersgma and 1 other person like this.
  14. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    the auction house that sold it says it's by Grünler.
    judy likes this.
  15. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Did the auction house have a reason for their attribution? To the eye, there is no reason to believe those two paintings are by the same artist.

  16. Pat P

    Pat P Well-Known Member

    The painting of the woman reminds me of primitive portraits, especially in the coloring, with a dark background and a lot of contrast.

    To my eye, the style looks almost like a cross between primitive portraits and more classic ones.
    judy likes this.
  17. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    Sounds like a good idea.
    i need help and judy like this.
  18. Tarren M Bailey

    Tarren M Bailey New Member

    Hi everyone thank you so much for all of your detective work! I am going to attach the back of the woman's painting here... back of painting-11.jpg

    I will reach out and see if I can get the back of the painting of the gentleman!
    Thank you all for your help! (Wish I could read German, seems like there was more information out there I couldn't understand!)
    i need help likes this.
  19. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

  20. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    I don't find something fitting for A. Fehr, the copyist.
    there was an Adolf Fehr in Switzerland, but I rather think it was done from a local German artist.
    i need help likes this.
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