Pair Chinese Black On Red Cinnabar Vases

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by kardinalisimo, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    Can't really tell if they are carved lacquer or molded composite material. Not sure of the age either.
    Any thoughts?
    Thanks
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  2. moontymes

    moontymes Well-Known Member

    These are very nice! Even better that they are a pair. If large the pair together are in the $400-800 range. or more depending on the day. Probably early 20th century. Congrats!
     
  3. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    always post dimensions please
     
  4. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    sorry, not quite large. about 10 1/2" tall. I searched for similar and almost everything that I find is mostly with flowers and scrolls but no figures and buildings. Mine are very nice quality which made me think they were molded but not carved by hand. Hope they are hand made.
     
  5. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    The black portion is hand-carved I'm sure since there's no other way I can think of to make the sharp features of the tiny faces, floral details etc That may help verify that these have some age to them but not knowing this area, someone else will have to tell us when the hand-carving of this type of item may have stopped.
     
  6. moontymes

    moontymes Well-Known Member

    kardinalisimo, the reason I know something about these vases is because I have sold one almost identical to it, except for the shape was slightly different. Pretty much the same type figure carvings, both black and red carvings, etc. If I recall correctly, the vase sold for about $200. This was back in the summer. I imagine your having the pair would at least double the price. People love to have a pair of something.
     
  7. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    thanks for the replies. I bought them from an estate sale where there were some old Asian items together with newer pieces. I always stay alert when modern Chinese and Japanese pieces are present. That usually means the there was no 'serious' collector but I've seen before mixture of modern and antique Asian pieces at estate sales.
     
  8. spirit-of-shiloh

    spirit-of-shiloh Well-Known Member

    On the third pic down to the right I see a pop painted over? I also see some red peeking from under some of the black painted areas. Looks resin to me but then..WDIK? ;)
     
  9. Messilane

    Messilane Well-Known Member

    I am not seeing that. :confused:
     
  10. spirit-of-shiloh

    spirit-of-shiloh Well-Known Member

    c_zps2a1f01bb.jpg
     
  11. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I noticed that too as well as some of the etched lines seem to have fill in them with no hard sharp edges as would show up when cut with a knife or engraving tool.
     
    spirit-of-shiloh likes this.
  12. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

  13. spirit-of-shiloh

    spirit-of-shiloh Well-Known Member

    http://www.realorrepro.com/article/Cinnabar

    separating genuine lacquer from plastic

    [​IMG]Fig. 3 Carved lacquer over brass 8″ vase. Black top layer over cinnabar red bottom layer. Made new in China, $64. Interior and base in blue enamel. See base in Fig. 12
     
    komokwa likes this.
  14. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    I've seen that. But still, to my eyes the real and the repro look quite similar.
     
  15. Mat

    Mat Well-Known Member

    To me also your vases look carved, not old, but at least handmade and not of bad quality!When lou look at the carved areas, can you see many thin layers of laquer? If it is real cinnabar, it should be like that and from the photos I think I can see them...
    Mat
     
    cartoongirl likes this.
  16. kardinalisimo

    kardinalisimo Well-Known Member

    There is quite of dust accumulated so I guess that may be a sign of age. Also, there are some cracks. Would that indicate real cinnabar but not resin or other composite material?

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    spirit-of-shiloh likes this.
  17. Mat

    Mat Well-Known Member

    I do not know if resin does crack, but I think it would be a compact mass and would not show the layers visible on your last photos... I tend towards lacquer... The dust shows certainly that they have been for some time in a dirty place, but I do not think you can date the vases with it! :) Just for comparison I show an old, 18th c cinnabar box, that has been taken care of much better...
    Mat Lacquer1.jpg Lacquer3.jpg Lacquer3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  18. Lulululu

    Lulululu New Member

    A mix of good old and not so good/recent can also mean the collector recieved gifts from well meaning parties who either didn't know or didn't care about quaity or history and was too polite to get rid of those items. There are also cases of collectors who, as they become elderly and lose both vision and mental faculties, begin to add in any old thing. As a life long (and 3rd generation) antique collector, I am wary of rules like the one you cite, because there are exceptions. Yes, it should factor into your assessment, but so should the fact that human nature does not drive us to behave identically. If the price was good, you were right to consider this possibility, but buy it anyway.
     
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