Pewter Hallmarks?

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by StacyJ2010, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. StacyJ2010

    StacyJ2010 New Member

    I'm going cross-eyed! HELP lol

    Any thoughts?
    Picture with the two areas circled, see the flower and London on the bottom of the hallmarks. The area to the left of that, I thought I was seeing things but couldn't tell for sure, my 17 yr old confirmed she thinks there's another hallmarks there but can quite figure it out.

    The second photo are small hallmarks on the plate. The blue dot area I can't tell if there's supposed to be something there? The first two red dots I can't quite make out what they're supposed to be, the last I see as "AD".

    Any opinions to what you see / don't see in the pictures. I've spent quite a bit of time going through links and photos trying to find and haven't seen anything yet... Thought I'd see if any of you fine people see anything/something I'm not

    I added a picture of the front of the plate if that helps at all?

    Thanks!!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    those are pretty worn down..........sheesh!
     
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Welcome Stacy. I'll ask fellow member @Aquitaine if she can work her magic on the marks to make them more visible.:)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    AND OH MY GOODNESS, they certainly ARE VERY worn!!! NOT sure these are going to help much if AT ALL!!!! With BOTH sets, I tried what I know, but I don't think there was much left to bring out!! Sometimes contrast, inverting, and a couple of other tweakings will help.....but....
    FIRST set, what I 'THINK' I see on the LEFT image is a leprechaun sitting on I don't know what, with the outline of a pumpkin behind him.....which doesn't make sense to me with the "LONDON" mark on the right, BUT others are best at doing the identifying the marks!!! TOP image is inverted & below it is lightly contrasted...... Screenshot_20200710-INVERTED N CONTRASTED.jpg

    NEXT....WITH the four marks across with the colored dots....... PHEW! AGAIN....with the challenges.....and what I think I see...... First, I could discern NOTHING above the RED dot.....but to the left of that dot, I DO see a tiny apple with a stem and 2 tiny leaves underneath and something to the left of it.....strange! Now for the next two BLUE dots.....and this is where it seems to get a bit "WONKY".... FIRST one.....what I see is the LEFT PROFILE of a man's head with a moustache/into a long moustache/beard?..... he's wearing a hat as well! SECOND blue dot.....hard to describe..... he's more of a 'satyr' (legs look somewhat like horse's legs) or upright devil type figure facing left, holding a 'staff' in left hand and a bird (?) in right....and honestly looks like (please don't laugh!) horns on top of head!!! THIRD RED dot is and was AD......TOP image is INVERTED and BELOW is CONTRASTED. That's all I've got..........hope it helps a wee bit!!

    4-MARKS-INVERTED AND CONTRAST.jpg
     
  5. StacyJ2010

    StacyJ2010 New Member

    Wow! That's amazing! Thank you for all of your efforts!!
     
    Aquitaine and Any Jewelry like this.
  6. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Thanks Aqui, they are certainly much more legible.:happy: Now for someone who knows...
    This post bumps the thread up in the list, so maybe someone will reply.
     
    StacyJ2010 and i need help like this.
  7. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    I think the third punch is an angel and the last is AD. (Possibly a third letter)
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    That's what I thought. We used to have the rose mark and the angel in the Netherlands, but the Brits had the rose too and by the looks of it they had the angel as well.
    I was thinking ADR, and is that an L over the D?
     
    i need help likes this.
  9. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    It’s difficult for me to make out any more letters, but it does look as if there’s something over the AD.
     
  10. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly STAY SAFE The worst prison is a closed heart

    This is from Cotterell's book Old Pewter it's Makers and Marks.

    Aquila Dac(k)ombe, London. I'm not entirely convinced I see a bee in your mark but it's so worn perhaps you'll be better able to tell in person. They mention later marks by someone with the same and slightly different names however they don't show those marks.

    upload_2020-7-12_18-56-46.png
    upload_2020-7-12_19-2-40.png
     
    i need help and Bakersgma like this.
  11. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    @i need help, that "possible third letter" looks like it could be a "P" or a smaller "D" maybe....as for something over the AD.... anything's possible.....I just couldn't bring any more out.....it's certainly not "cut & dried"!!!
     
    i need help likes this.
  12. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    @say_it_slowly, you bringing up the 'bee' mark, got me to thinking about what I thought was a man sitting on 'I don't know what' and the possible pumpkin outline behind him......I would LOVE to find if there was in past history MORE than one 'bee' mark!!! When I finish my half-sketch/thoughts on it....I'll post it here....it's overlaying the man....which I thought odd but went with it.....I'll be back!!!
     
  13. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly STAY SAFE The worst prison is a closed heart

    Here is another version of the bee mark and I'm thinking this probably is the mark of Aquila Dackombe. Pewter can have lots of rubs, scratches etc that can appear to be something. Perhaps Stacy can look in various lighting and see if there are similarities to this AD Dackombe mark. The other small punches seem correct including the maker initials.

    Mark 913
    http://www.pewterbank.com/THE_FIVE_LONDON_TOUCH_PLATES.pdf

    Two versions of the bee mark and the pewter mark flipped.

    upload_2020-7-13_10-40-19.png
     
  14. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly STAY SAFE The worst prison is a closed heart

    In Cotterell's book Old Pewter It's Makers and Marks in England, Scotland and Ireland, which is massive, as far as I can tell from all those shown, the small initial punch is the initials of the maker. Someone else may be more familiar or have more info.

    Of the makers with AD initials the only marks shown are that of Aquila Dackombe.

    Here is a list of makers with AD initials with no marks shown and approximate dates. Four are London.
    • Alexander Daniell, London 1812+
    • Allyn Dawson, London 1554
    • Arnold de Arlicheseye, London 1351
    • Anthony Delyshey, Hertford 1582
    • Anthony Diston, London 1698
    • Angus Donaldson, Edinburgh 1787
    • Allan Duncan, Glasgow 1777
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
    Aquitaine likes this.
  15. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    NICE RESEARCH!!! AS ALWAYS!!!!! Here is my editing, VERY CRUDE, outlining thinly in RED what I think I see.....and yes, it IS difficult to get a good image!!!! BUT it BUGS me!!!! Side by Side.....sure looks like there's SOME SORT of BEE there.....also appears to be some printing underneath, but couldn't get all the letters clear.....a possible W before the M A ? ? R....then can't read....or it could be insignificant......

    COMPARISON IMAGES.jpg
     
  16. StacyJ2010

    StacyJ2010 New Member

    A co-worker was thinking it said "ADP" on that last stamp.
    I'm going to try to magnify things a little bit more and see if I can't get some better views of it. I've tried moving it all around in the light to get different angles when I took pictures.

    I am beyond amazed at all of the work/knowledge you have all shared!
    Thank you! :)
     
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